Jeff
I take it you cast up the crosshead guides and frame brackets. And it looks like you made the main bearing brackets as well. The baffle plate looks great.
You do very nice work.
Rolly

Thanks Rolly. Yes, all new castings for the crosshead guides and frame brackets. If I'd thought of it, I would have done the frame brackets in one piece as you have done. Instead, I got the pieces cast and I made them oversize for additional strength and I put spacer tubes vertically over the rods so I could clamp them up tight on the nuts without any fear of bending the main rods. Bearing blocks were machined from solid bar.

Jeff

Well I just about finished one of the 20 HP box frames. This afternoon I finished the adjustable hookup assembly and I think it will work out OK. Weather it will make a difference in any performance will have to wait and see.
Rolly

I made up two 1901 locomobile hubcaps for a guy that was missing two. Now I can’t find the paper with his name. I hope he remembers mine as I have his original one. It is a steel stamping, I made the new ones out of brass as he is going to have them all nickel’ed.
Rolly

Rolly

Today my home made tap cam back from being hardened, so I set up and finished my baffle plates. Worked well.

Rolly

Dear Rolly, I made a tap for tapping my baffle plates too. It looks much like yours, only I didn't harden it. I figured since I would only be tapping aluminum, it wouldn't get dull for the amount that I would be using it. I used it for tapping out 30 hp type 8 engine baffle plates. Your Locomobile hub caps came out looking good.

I wasn’t planning on it either Pat, my friend Richard talked me into it. When I had the segments for the frames water jet cut a added the disk to the drawing its ¾ x 4140 stock, it only hardens to around 56 or 58 RW not like tool steel. With the UPS charges it probably the most expensive part of the baffle plates.
I had the aluminum stock in my scrap pile and the water jet cost for the two plates and six locknuts was only $25.00
A friend not two far away has a nice push pull mig set up for aluminum so I let him weld the band around the edge. He owed me a favor, and my mig is a spray ark rig set up for heavy welding. My eyes are not as good as they use to be keeping on the line anyway if I tried to tig weld them.

Rolly

Spent today finishing off the spring bolts. I made a radial turning attachment for the lathe using some watercut parts sold on ebay - it only took a couple of hours to make and worked surprisingly well. I cheated a little with the bolts - I made the heads seperate and threaded them, then screwed them on tight to the studs and siversoldered them before turning the spherical shape.

Jeff

The board has been kind of quit lately.
I’ve been pocking around working on different part for the two engines I’m putting together. I’m waiting for some hex stock to make new valve packing glands and the 1-1/4 nuts to hold the baffle plate in place. I only had enough for one engine.
The other day I set up the tool-post grinder on the lathe to straighten out and put a finish on the valve guides, and made new bushings for this type of frame.
Jeff how are you coming on the springs?

Rolly

Nice job as always Rolly. The springs are pretty well done - they took about 5 weeks of spare time and it was a filthy job - that grinding dust seems to get everywhere. Pictures attached. They need a little bit of work in places still but I'm going to paint them before I put them together. Currently working on the steering parts for the front axle while I'm waiting for the sector casting to be done. Hopefully, Mr Calimer will have my wheels done soon and I will have the axles ready to mount them on.

Jeff

Very nice Jeff
Very few have any idea of the labor it takes to build a set of springs or modify a set.

I took my EX on the Eastern tour in Gorham New Hampshire and realized I just needed more storage room. A year earlier a friend showed me a very nice toolbox built into the running board of his Rolls Royce. When I came home I remover the running board and put it in storage and built my own toolbox running board.

Rolly

Rolly,

That was one of my jobs on our Rolls Royce last year - the same design. I had to remake the running board, using the original metalwork of the box with new boards.

Mike

Mike I’m not familiar with a lot of antique cars. Were there many pre teen cars that used running board tool boxes or limited to just a few high end cars.
Rolly

Finally finished up fabricating my steering sector ready for machining the gear teeth. I made up the arm from steel and slotted and pinned everything together so the welding and brazing only really fills in the gaps.

Jeff

Nice work as always Jeff.
Question? Why did you not machine the teeth before you assembled it?
Rolly

Rolly, wasn't sure it would come out OK fabricating it all like this, and also figured that I could mount it on the shaft to make sure the teeth have the correct center. Guess I could've done it the other way, just didn't occur to me!

Jeff

I have been rebuilding Stanley water automatics. I found that there is a difference in the ends of them. One type has a removable seats in its brass ends, and the other one has what looks like a silver/brass with a permanent seat and a different type of ball rod and guide. Which is the oldest type and when were they introduced to which models of Stanleys? See the attachments. For lapping in the seats, I used a hand crank valve lapper shown.

I have been building a water flow bypass valve for my Richard Smith bicycle. This will limit the flow of water to the boiler to a certain amount and bypass the rest once it gets past a certain speed like how the white flow motor bypasses excess water once you are going faster than 15mph.

We have been getting our 1914 Stanley 606 roadster ready for its summer touring. I mounted its new water automatic yesterday. Today I hope to adjust it so that it works properly. I finally mounted its newly replated Troy windshield. The proper Troy windshield frame sure does look nice on the 1914. The car goes into the top shop on Tuesday for a new proper fitting top. I rebuilt all of the throttle linkage. First I silver soldered all of the clevis pin holes closed. Then I drilled them out and reamed them to 1/4" diameter holes again. With new clevis pins in place, there is no longer lost motion in the throttle linkage. I also cleaned out the slotted burner plate. The slots were about half plugged up with rust, insulation and dust. I used a ground down hacksaw blate to drag the slots clean again. I did a flow test like Jan Leno did on his video of his Vanderbilt Cup Stanley's burner plate. I was very dissapointed in my flow results. Most of my fuel flow is up through the back of the burner plate. The next time that I have the burner plenum off, I will try to improve on the baffles below the burner plate. We have 2" of new snow this morning. More snow coming in the forecast.

Jay Leno testing his new burner for proper air flow. See it at: <[www.jaylenosgarage.com];

Off topic,,,Just to remind those down south Sunny southern Maine was --20f this morning,,,and has now , 4pm, gone up to +1 [plus one]] ,,,but its a sunny afternoon,,,
Geo an' Rolly,,,,dont head north quite yet,,,Cheers,,Ben

Pat I looked at Jay Leno’s burner air flow testing. I have done the same thing and came to the conclusion it’s all wrong.
That thirty inch burner should burn at least eight Gal per hour, if not more. Fuel has a weight of seven + Lb per gal. That’s close to 60 Lb of weight or one Lb per min and the volume is ten times as much.
Pushing that weight and volume through the slots or holes is much different then air. It backs up and creates a pressure in the chamber much more then the cold air. When burning hot it draws it through, totally different then pushing air through.
I’m not convinced it proves a thing. I like to light them off and look for the same flame height. Even an open flame test is not the same as having a boiler on top creating a back pressure.
Rolly

Dear Ben, I can't take much more of this global warming. It has snowed here almost everyday this year. Thank goodness it is melting about as fast as it has fallen. Sunshine? It is just a brief memory from last year.
Dear Rolly, I like your reasoning. I tried the air test though my model 606 burner and I was very dissapointed as I had several dead zones. The car steams well so I should not be concerned.
For the last couple of days, I have been working in my shop searching for a leak in my model 85's fuel tank. Leaking fuel is no joke and is not allowed with any motor vehicle. I removed the folding top, removed the back half of the body, drained 30 gallons of keorsene, and then pulled the fuel tank. I had been through this already once and it is a pain doing all of this work again. Last time I did a fuel gravity test for looking for leaks and I thought that I had found the culprit. Apparently not. This time I did an air pressure test. I chucked an air regulated air hose to the tank with about 2 PSI on the gauge. Sure enough. I found 4 air leaks in an area that I had previously overlooked. Leaving the air hose chucked up to the tank, I removed the filler cap and let the air flow freely to the atmosphere. When the air coming out no longer had a fuel smell, I used my propane torch to solder the leaks shut. I reinstalled and filled the fuel tank last night and 24 hours later, I still don't have any fuel leaks. I do have drain holes drilled in my 85's body for spilt fuel to escape. I drilled the drain holes the last time that I had the tank out of the body. I still enjoy working on our Stanleys, regardless of what I am doing to them.

In reference to the water automatic post...This one (assuming it is origanal) came on a 1910 model 60 serial # 5298.

This is interesting.

- The 1906 parts book has no part number 592.

- In the 1910 and 1914 parts books, 592A is the expansion tube for the low water fuel cutoff, and 592B & C are a cap and plug for that tube. (Diagram attached)

- The 1916 parts book uses the same numbers for the same parts, but now also lists parts for the automatic bypass. The bypass valve body, which is the part with "592" on the casting in the "1910 Water automatic" photo, is listed as part # 598A.

- The 1919 parts book uses the same numbers for the same parts as 1916 (except 592C is gone).

My own automatic bypass valve, taken from who knows what year, has the same "592" casting as the photo.
My low water cutoff valve doesn't have numbers on any of its parts.

Wonder why the bypass casting # doesn't match the book part #?

Brings up the question "the water automatic was not a factory parts book listed part of a Stanley car until the 1916 models", but it may have been available for earlier models as add-ons like were also the headlights, top, and windshields of Stanley cars built up through 1912. F. E. Stanley did apply for the water automatic's patent about 8 years before it became a parts catalog listed item in 1916. It would be interesting to find factory correspondence listing all available accessories that were not listed in the parts catalogs for their Stanley steam cars. In later years, Cruban had a parts catalog listing all of Cruban's aftermarket Stanley accessories. I have their catalog here.........somewhere.

This is all very interesting, I had a look at the low water fuel shutoff on #7644 and there are no part numbers on it either. It may or may not be the original fitted to the car - we had a couple come with it. It is looking increasingly certain that #7644 never has a water automatic. For what its worth, here is the only photo I have of the orignal boiler in the car. If you enlarge it (quality might not be good enough though) you can see the top of the low water fuel shutoff.

Peter Turvey

A bit on the automatic bypass from the operator manuals. The 1913 Stanley Instructions book has a complete diagram of the water system, which does not show an automatic bypass. The text describes all of the automatic valves, but does not mention an automatic bypass.

The 1917 Stanley Instructions book contains a description of the automatic bypass.

To recap from all the factory literature that I have access to:

pre-1915 sales catalogs do not describe any automatic valves
1910 parts book - no automatic bypass parts
1913 Instructions - no automatic bypass described
1914 parts book - no automatic bypass parts
- - - - - - - - - -
1916 sales catalog - describes automatic bypass
1916 parts book - includes automatic bypass parts
1917 Instructions - includes automatic bypass

There seems to be no evidence in the Stanleys' published material that they equipped any cars at the factory with an automatic bypass before the introduction of the condenser.

I spent the day machining up a new Stanley throttle.
Rolly

I just ordered a 1-64 tap and die for the clevis and rod end.
The smallest I had in stock was 2-56. two large.
I’m getting two old for this working under a glass.
Rolly

Ahh ha.... I was looking at the throttle photo and I was wondering why it looked a little different from the Stanley throttles that I am used to seeing. No wonder. You have done a great job of minature machining. When I first read your above posting of your 1-64 tap purchase, my first thought was a 1" tap, but wait, 64 tpi? No way. Reading on, it is a # 1 tap! I don't own anything that small either. I hope that I don't need to own anything that small either. My days of watch repair are well beyond me by 20 years or so.

Pat thanks
In Cad it pretty easy it get the size in scale, you just take the full size drawing and type in the scale. In this case ¼ scale. Now you have to edit it to available drill and tape sizes.
40 TPI is available in model tapered pipe threads. A close up photo that’s course.
But if you want it steam tight its better then straight threads.
Same with making a boiler. A tight ligament space on a Stanley boiler is 5/16. less 0.0100 clearance space for each tube makes it only 0.2925, the steel ferrules just about touch each other, I used this on my 18 inch boiler, you get the most tubes.¼ scale is 0.0731. that’s kind of close. I was not sure if I could tighten the tubes up without a lot of distortion. I went with 0.1000 instead.
You get fewer tubes in the layout. Does it matter; you have to make the call at some point.
I guess it makes a difference if you want it two work or just show. I build things to work even if I don’t use them.
Rolly

It’s a rainy day. Even though the #1-64 tap hasn’t come yet I decided to mill up the little clevis end for the throttle. It’s only 1/8 square and 0.4182 long, little sucker.
I had some 1/8 brass key way stock. No good,, I had nothing to hold it by in the lathe.
I have a 16 inch four jaw chuck a 14” a 12” and 8” and then I had a 3” even the three-inch wouldn’t close on 1/8 stock. So I took a length of ¼ inch stock and milled a 1/8 SQ end on it long enough for the part and cut it off long enough for the chuck to hold the ¼ inch end. I held the 3 inch chuck in the 8 inch and turned the end and drill the hole for the tap. Now it will sit and tie up the lathe till the tap comes. I’ll tap it while it’s still in the lathe.

Rolly

Well I no sooner posted my last post that I heard a truck come. Yes a Fed-X with my tap and die. Back to the shop. I finished the part and the only fear was not to drop it on the shop floor. I’d never find it and have to start all over.

Rolly

Rolly, Good photo of chucks. A four jaw chuck holding a four jaw chuck which was holding your very small work. My tail stock often gets multiple drill chucks for the same reason. Thank you for the photos of your work. What are you going to put your small boiler into?

Thanks Pat
Most likely nothing.
I have made models of a lot of the full size boilers I have built. Some times before I build the full size ones. Hears a few.
The water tube marine boiler several have been built Code; one is out in your state. I have one in my 25-foot boat. The Derr I built for my 1920 Stanley. I have a few others as well; one horizontal return tubular boiler is in my 56 inch Tug.
Rolly

Spent the weekend finishing the machining of the diff casting for my Stanley R. My lathe was only just big enough to get it mounted (upside down) for boring the center hole that mounts on the axle. To start with I had a lot of trouble with build up of aluminum on the tool and I ended up putting about 40 degrees of side rake on the tool to keep it clear. I think the worst part of the machining though was boring the 4 holes for the engine frame - they are over 6 inches deep and aluminum is horrible stuff to machine. Big surprise was how little clearance there is on the inside of the casting between the back of the bevel gears and the side of the casting - must only be about 1/32". Anyway, all done now and fits on the axle quite well. Next mission is to get all the rear brake shoes, drums and levers done so I can get the wheels on and then mount the engine to the axle

Jeff

Beautiful work Jeff. I was wondering what you’ve been up to. I haven’t used that setup in years. Ever since I got my 40 taper universal Mill about thirty years ago. Did you make the patterns for the castings? They look great.
Rolly

Jeff
I thought I would mention this.
The last one I machined I cut in groves 5/16 wide and 0.2000 deep for 1/4 inch O-ring seals.
Rolly



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2012 12:17AM by Rolly.

Why didn't I think of using O rings??? I've been wondering how well it will seal as it has to be able to move and seal at the same time. I was thinking with the wide bearing surface, it would form its own oil seal but O rings would clinch it!

I was going to make the patterns and get them cast but the estimates from the foundry were in the same ball park as one from Goolds so I got an unmachined one from them and saved some complicated pattern making. It was a nice clean casting and can recommend them.

Jeff

I have machined a 20 hp "R" and a 30 hp "85" differential castings so far and I put the "O" ring groove on the outside edge of the bores instead of in the middle of the bores. The differential housing pivots on the rear axle and it needs lubrication across the whole bearing surface. That is why I chose the outside edge of the bore for the "O" ring. I copied the idea from my 10 hp type 6 engine. No oil leaks from any of the three differential housings. For the right size O ring, I cut them to the proper length circumference and I sewed the O ring ends together. There is a glue that does this also but I didn't have it on the shelf. For the engine frame rod bores, I drilled them in my milling machine by first drilling a pilot hole, which unfortunately gave me 6 inch deep crooked holes, next by milling their holes straight again to about final size and finally by running a reamer through them for a perfect fit. I had bought the unmachined 30 hp aluminum casting from Carl Amsley. It was a bugger to get the 30 hp rough castings centered up on each other because the casting halves were not a good fit to each other to start with. The 20 HP "R" unmachined aluminum castings that I bought from Alan Kelso were an excellent fit to each other from the start. My milling machine did all of my work. It was fun.

I'd like to machine it for O-rings - I can remount it in the lathe but I'd have to mount a boring head in the headstock and use that to cut the groove - not easy but should be possible. What is the best tool shape to cut a groove like this without the swarf gumming up the tool?

Jeff

I used a round nosed bit that matched the size of the O ring being used. If using a high speed steel bit, I cut at a 300 surface feet per minute. With carbide cutting bits, you can cut at 800 surface feet per minute on aluminum. To calculate rpm: (cutting speed X 4)/ diameter = rpm. Depending on the alloy of the aluminum, I have often used lanolin as a cutting oil for a finer finish cut. If in doubt about what speed to use, always start at a slower speed and work up. For the ultimate finish cut, I always finish honing my cutting bits on a hand held hone stone. FYI comparison...(Mild steel has a cutting speed of 100 surface feet per minute with a high speed cutting bit.) Another benefit of having the O ring on the outside of your differential housing, it is to keep the dirt out of the bearing surface between the axle housings and the differential housing. On the outside of the differential housings there are steel thrust washers that the differential housing centering adjusting screws rest against. The thrust washer is against the outside edge of the differential O ring groove. I made my o ring grooves shallow eough so that when the adjusting screws are brought up against the thrust washers, the O rings have a slight compression for a better O ring seal. We have kind of gotten away from this threads original topic......

Today Merrily and I had the help of SACA/NW President Eric Gleason in getting our 1916 Stanley Mt. Wagon ready for the Sol Duc Hot Springs Centennial this week end. Sol Duc had about 7 Mt. Wagons operating between Lake Crescent and the Hot Springs in 1912. There were more than that many operating between Lake Crescent and Port Angeles at the very same time and owned by another transportation company. Our Mt. Wagon is the guest star at their Sol Duc Hot Springs Centennial. We flip the top assembly forward so that the Mt. Wagon can fit into our short enclosed car hauling trailer. Photo was taken by Eric's best friend, Jackie.

Some views on the road to Sold Duc Hot Springs in about 1912

May 12 and 13, 2012 we attended the Omak, WA car show. They had about 200 cars on the field. Our 1914 Stanley took best in its class and the Stanley 606 was also a crowd pleaser. Check out the photos below.

Having built several wooden boats and my last steam boat was aluminum built 23 years ago I was re-reading some back issue of Wooden Boat mag, that I no longer subscribe to. I was looking for a particular article I remembered reading of on a keel splice.
What was interesting about this splice was that it was used on a 400-ton merchant ship sunk of the cost of France in a storm 100 years BC. The ship was 131 feet long and had two of these splices in the keel. I was intrigued by it and always wanted to make a sample of it to see how well it worked. Fantastic joint.
Ever try to find an article in a back issue. I looked through every issue I had and could not find it. Then I went on the Internet and looked up Wooden Boat and sure enough they had a search bar for past articles. I hit it first time and went back to my pile of books and found the issue and looked up the page and there it was.
I cut mine out of a piece of 1-1/2 square Poplar. Not the greatest journeywork but it works. The keel on the 400-ton ship was 14 inches wide (sided) by 16 inches high (molded). And there was a second keel hung under it with mortise and tendon joints.
See attached photos.
Rolly



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2012 07:58PM by SSsssteamer.

I am machining up cast iron brake drums for our 1914 Stanley 606 roadster. The original steel drums were very poor at cooling. Hopefully the cast iron brake drums will be a big improvement. I purchased rough brake drum castings through Alan Kelso and I completed the machining of the drums today. Tomorrow I hope to have the new cast iron drums on the car and I will be wearing in the new brake lining by the afternoon.

I steamed the 1914 Stanley up today to try out the new cast iron brake drums. They worked well. Not good, but just well. I can kid both rear tires with a tank full of water aboard. I couldn't do that before. I have yet to get them overheated. Time will tell if this was really a worth while conversion from steel to cast iron drums.

Our Mt. Wagon had developed a knock in tune with the power strokes. It also developed a few steam leaks from the back heads and steam chest cover. I went looking for the knocking. I first cheked the hanger strap. Tight. I then checked the wrist pins. Just right. What could it be? Finally found it. The engine frame rod nuts for the cylinder had backed off a bit. Tightened them up and no more knocking. I got the steam chest repacked with a new cover seal. No leaks there. Now for the rear heads. With the engine still in the Mt. Wagon, that should be fun trying to get to them. An good ideas on getting the packing to stay in place on the heads while I tighten the heads down? I have tried twice now and every time that I pull the heads up tight, either I get a gap in the ends of the packing rings, or the packing pops out from underneath the head and block. I even tried to use contact cement to keep the packing rings in their little groove. That didn't work. I also tried a lap cut instead of a butt cut on the packing rings. That didn't help either. Any good ideas out there on how to make the packing rings stay put where they belong without them bunching up or popping out when the heads are screwed down?

I finally got all of my heads all sealed up in the Mt. Wagon. The first packing I installed when the engine was rebuilt apparently was a little undersized. The new packing has a full figure and was a tight fit, which was good. How I finally got it repacked follows. Cleaning the head groove out completly, I even chased it with a small round file to make sure that the last thread allowed the packing unobstructed room. I installed the packing much like a boat builder caulks the hull boards of a boat. I took a larged bladed screw driver and drove the packing into its groove all of the way around including the butt cut. I then took small round stock and layed it parallel against the packing seam and tapped a nice matching curve from the screw driver into the packing. I liberally lubricated the heads and packing with an anti-seize to help keep the packing in place. I used my home made head wrenches to torque the heads as tight as I could physically tighten them. So tight that even with a punch and hammer, I couldn't drive them any tighter. Took the Mt. Wagon for a spin around the neighbor hood this evening and it was very quiet. No steam leaks. :)

Pat making up the tool to screw the head in centered is a big help. I often wondered why Stanley being so inventive didn’t predate Bryan in there head design.

Rolly

Been turning the castings for the cast iron brake drums for the R. The shop is sitting at about 90 degrees at it's coolest now so I tend to come out looking like the graphite man! Also been making the exterior brake band bits. One quick question - what type of rivets did they use to hold the lining on the exterior bands - see last photo. Is it a large hollow rivet swaged over a washer - the band seems to have a raised area around the rivet. That's assuming this photo shows the original.

Jeff

Jeff
I bought my brake banding from All Frictions Co Portland CT 860-342-2001
They shipped brass rivets, I’m not sure what the original would have been, but brass won’t dig up the drum if they get that far.
Rolly

For Brake Lining Rivets, use conventional brass brake lining rivets. Using the hollow rivets with the correct diameter and length will make for a perfect fit, without washers. Using old bands with oversized holes, then a washer might be needed to take up the slack.

In drilling out rivits from the peened over end,,
the rivit will part off and stick to the drill,,,,usually,
making a small washer,, the drill has NOT gone through the band,,just touched it,,
Now tap the rivit through with a small punch,,,[ or nail ]

The split rivits spoken of the other day were an invention made to reline model T Ford transmisson bands without taking the steel bands out,,!!!
Just drive the rivit through the cotton web,,til it bucks up on the steel drum and the rivit will part ways left/right and secure?? the mess,,,,,,There is a volume of T shortcuts,
You either like Ts or not,,,dont say I said so,,

Precision miniature tubing bender.
Several years ago I built a small precision tubing bender. The bend takes place with a back die so all the bending is done with a die around the entire tube. Very little distortion in the diameter of the tube.
The bender was for a fixed die size of 1/8 inch tubing, and after building it I realized I should have built it so I could make different die for different size tubing and bend radius.
So I finely got around to it and built a new base and die block for 1/8, 3/16, and ¼ tube diameter.
Rolly



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/29/2012 05:00PM by Rolly.

It’s amassing how curded up a burner gets after a boiler gets scorched.
I found the slots in this early burner for a 1901 Locomobile to be 0.020 and my exacto knife was 0.019
Worked just great to clean all the slots.
Rolly

Dear Rolly, Slotted burners need their slots cleaned out as regular maintenance just like the drilled burners do, but not as often as the drilled burners. To clean the rust and crud from a slotted burner, I use a hack saw blade, I break it in half and use the half that will give me a pull stroke during cleaning. Next, grind the set out of the teeth and grind the blade's thickness to match the gap of the slot. This way, a cleaning can quickly be done and when finished, the burner grate will look almost like new again. With the burner turned upside down, use a air nozzel in the mixing tubes to blow the dirt out of the burner slots.

Thanks Pat I did use the air, all kinds of crud came out. The grate was a new casting and very little hours were on it. I did not want to use a hacksaw on it as yet. I have some 0.025 blade stock and thought about taking of the set with the grinder but the exacto knife worked ok along with the air. Down the road I’ll have to make up something for the owner, it’s not the type of job I want to do again except on my own car.
Rolly