Ok Folks, I have a 1929 Model-A pick up. I want to run it on compressed air. I was thinking that if I got my hands on a steam engine I might be able to convert that to using compressed air.

My plan is to get the engine running on air from a compressor that is run off a inverter that is powered by batteries that are recharged by a alternator. This is just something I wanted to run by some people who are very interested in this type of motor. I have found a guy in Missouri that builds 20hp steam engines and was just curious what you all thought. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tom

"to get the engine running on air from a compressor... that is run off a inverter... that is powered by batteries... that are recharged by a alternator".
And what runs the alternator?
Every time there is an energy conversion from one form to another, efficiency is lost. Steam cars have two energy conversions which hinder their fuel mileage. From fuel (potential energy) to steam (potential energy), from steam to motion (kenetic energy). Internal combustion engines only have one energy conversion which gives them better fuel mileage than steam cars. Your steam engine can run on compressed air, but the expansion rate of compressed air as compared to to steam, is very low for getting much work done from it.

The alternator would be run off of a belt drive from the rear axel which is exposed. I want to weld a fly wheel on there to drive the alternator. How do you think that would work?

I know it can be done. I have seen it on some sites such as youtube. They actually have air powered cars now in France. The company is called MDI. I have tried to get in touch with them with no luck. That is why I am trying to see if this might work.

[www.youtube.com]

[www.mdi.lu]

Tom - sorry - you are trying to make a perpetual motion system. You have to put energy in somewhere by burning fuel, not just cycle energy around.

Compressed air power has been tried but only as a means of storing and transporting energy which is what I believe the French are trying. Air is compressed - energy put in by the electric powered compressor at the home base. The car then runs by expanding this compressed air through an engine which is very similar to a steam engine. A bit like the old fashioned fireless steam locomotives used for shunting - a static trackside boiler was used to make superheated water/steam which was pumped into the steam reservoir of the locomotive which could then work for some hours, using up the steam without needing a fire.

France produces about 70% of its electricity by nuclear power so the compressed air car if it works makes a certain amount of sense for them as it is a way of using nuclear electricity in place of carbon emitting fossil fuel. The transfer of this energy to the car could be done just as well by charging a battery but the cost of batteries is high, and their environmental impact probably lousy so the compressed air route is an alternative. The snag is to get a worthwhile range the air needs to be compressed to a very high pressure so the tank becomes a very heavy and extremely high technology item with all the risks which come with high pressure.

Mike



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2011 09:59PM by mike clark.

Hey Tom,

If I recall correctly the people at MDI used a 10 hp Stanley or Locomobile engine on their prototype.

They are doing the same thing that was done late in the 19th Century, using air compressed up to multiple thousand pounds per square inch and then expanding it down to around 100 psi before admiting it to the engine. They also ran into the same problem now that they did then, the expansion of the air caused it to cool greatly and freeze valves and such attached to the system.

I am not sure what the people at MDI did, but what they used prior to the 19th Century was to heat the air after expansion with a blue flame burner prior to its admission to the engine, thusly greatly increasing the potential energy in the air and allowing more expansion of it in the engine.

As Mike said, they use air stored in very high pressure tanks and would only be able to compress air on board if using the kinetic energy of slowing down the vehicle. However a pump that can compress air up to well over 1,000 psi needs to have multiple stages and intercooling between them so to refill their tanks with an on board compressor isn't exactly an easy or cheap thing to do.

Basically what you are trying to do is make one weight pull up another of the same weight with the same leverage, actaully with the losses involved between the stages, which are very significant, you would be trying to make a rather light weight drop down and pull up a very heavy weight, unfortunatly it isn't going to happen.

On the other hand your Modal A pickup would be make a real neat steam powered vehicle. . .

Caleb Ramsby

And the other problem is that MDI have never had an independent test for their "interesting claims" and the only test they actually published the air car went 5 miles. Whee. Plus since 2000 and $20 million later there is still the promise of sales "next year"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2011 09:47AM by Marksteamnz.

Who out there in Algorewarmingland would not like to have a $20 mil expense account to fool around with?

<grin>



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2011 04:46PM by JW.

One of the videos refers to a generator they have developed and to the possibility of connecting this to the engine in the car - perpetual motion - don'tcha just luv it. I am really surprised that they let this comment out in public, likewise the film of the car in Nice where it seems incapable of moving.

They also talk of longer range models in which "An energetic adjuvant is thus use to heat the compressed air before introducing it into the system of expansion with work". I wonder why they don't just call it petrol or diesel.

What is curious is the link up with Tata who are a serious company and presumably not easily fooled - but then this is perhaps more to do with the mini-factory manufacturing scheme than the air car.

Mike

I emailed TATA a year ago and they are not doing anything due to "technical problems" I'll bet there is some TATA marketing whiz who fell for MDI's promises now currently selling TATA trucks in a hell hole in the middle east.
The $20,000,000 comes from selling franchise licensees at $250,000 a pop. Catecar in Switzerland and ITMDI in NZ are typical, buy a license wait for the technology and then discover you need to give MDI another $1 million. Much tears and shouting ensues.
google Catecar news for the latest train wreck if you are interested

mike clark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> They also talk of longer range models in which "An
> energetic adjuvant is thus use to heat the
> compressed air before introducing it into the
> system of expansion with work". I wonder why they
> don't just call it petrol or diesel.


Or snake oil

Mike
>
>



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2011 10:02PM by mike clark.

Its been tried before see

[objectwiki.sciencemuseum.org.uk]

Mr Gibbs,who bought G,Whitney's early car ,drove it to NYC ,,and intended to draw it up and convert to air,,Drawings for patent application,, Ben