I've been adjusting my stuffing boxes by feel, and that seems to work fine, but I did a tune-up on my E Type yesterday, and as I was about to adjust the stuffing boxes on my Stanley engine today it occurred to me that I wouldn't have thought of putting sparking plugs in without a torque wrench, so why would I adjust the stuffing boxes by feel? Anyone like to suggest a torque value for stuffing boxes? Should it be different for different sizes? Or should they all be the same?

What year did the torque wrench get invented,,??
I doubt there was one in the whole factory,,
If the water pumps dribble just a tiny bit,,its to lubricate the packings,,
Be careful the oil pump doesn't suck air
leather boot lace is ok for the fuel pump,,,
If the water pumps are too tight,,,they will wear hour glass shape,,,

come to think of it,,,,is there anyone alive that has seen/used an hour glass,,,
Turn a shoulderd pin out of a 3/8" bolt the end will just fit into the lacey valve wheel
for storage
Turn to fit the packing nut,,,thy vary,,,Cheers Ben



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2012 11:56PM by Ben.

OOps,,,not sure if your E type is Jag or E-5 EX Stanley,,,
The adjusting pin will of course not fit into a cast alloy handwheel of 1910-1924,,
Best of fun,,,Ben

The torque wrench was invented by Conrad Bahr in 1918, while working for the New York City Water Department. It was designed to prevent overtightening bolts on water main AND STEAM PIPE repairs underground.

I agree that tightening stuffing boxes isn't rocket science, but just because the Stanley factory didn't do it that way doesn't mean that I can't. They didn't fit hydraulic brakes to their cars, either.

Inac

I always like to see them drip a little, it’s a touchy feely thing. Experience.
It also depends on the type of packing used. To have a torque setting everyone would have to use the same stuff. Or a setting would have to be established for every kind of packing.
Years ago on more then one occasion at a steam boat meet when I was steam boating, a boat would be towed in and I would be told the engine seized. Backing out the packing on the valves and the engine would come to life. Too tight when cold and the heat can seize the shaft.

But each to his own, let us know if its reliable and repetitive.

Rolly



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/2012 11:12AM by Rolly.

Around fire, I do not allow any dripping fuel, and that also applies to dripping fuel from the fuel pump too. I tighten my fuel pump packing just tight enough so that it does not leak, and also loose enough so that it does not make heat to the touch while running. The oil pump is an easy one to tighten as it doesn't leak either but it has to be tight enough so that it doesn't draw air. If your winker becomes lazy on its report, it is probably because your oil pump packing has become too loose. Ben....Good idea on using a leather shoe lace for fuel pump packing. Leather will last for a long time.

We need to keep things in perspective. Ianc was talking about his engine.
If were talking about the pumps its another thing. My EX burns gasoline. I certainly don’t want leaks. I to use leather both in the fuel and oil pumps. The fuel pump I am always checking on, my oil pump is another thing it’s not a positive drive system but spring driven and can’t be two tight, but must be tight enough so as not to draw in any air.
Water pumps are positive displacement driven through the engine. I try to keep the leaking to a minimum. But the engine I like to see a little dripping, not steam blowing out but a water drip every now and then, especially on the valve rods, and I’m not uncomfortable with some dripping on the piston rods.
Rolly

The torque required is not very high so I wonder if any commercial torque wrench will read that low? You'd need a crows foot adaptor to get on the gland nut and adjust the reading to suit.

With hard chromed valve rods no more than finger tight was needed on my car and even the piston rods needed little more. Funnily enough the pump rods needed a bit more effort but even there turning the gland nut with a three inch rod in the hole was enough to get them tight.

Mike

Is Lee Sturtevent still around,,making torque wrenches,,nice equipment!!
He also had an Unbelievable Dodge ramcharger and trailer,,,
BOTH with hemi,,!!
If anyone knows of this,,please start new thread,,
A small spring balence connected to a pin wrench should do the recording,,
Stanley twins had connected the horse to a buggy with a spring balence
to measure buggy drag,, simple BUT did get a measure,,,,

Cheers,,Ben



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2012 04:19PM by Ben.

My thanks for the posts. I have a 1/8" torque wrench designed for screws on musical instruments that is accurate from 1 to 175 inch/pounds, and I can easily rig up a crow's foot adapter, so I don't care how low the reading should be. "Finger-tight" is the most useful answer, but that doesn't seem tight enough. Anyone else agree with that?

The only stuffing box on any of our 5 Stanleys that can run at only finger tight is on our Water Automatics. All of the rest of the Stanley stuffing boxes have tighter values.

Okay Pat, what would you guess to be a reasonable value for the engine boxes? Five ft/lbs? Less?

Ian, every stuffing box is different depending on the type of packing used, the condition of the rod/piston surface and the fluid being sealed. I was told by a Stanley dealer's son who's name was Fran Duveneck, in answer to your same question, and his answer was: "tighten your stuffing boxes only enough to keep them from leaking. Anymore than that, it is a waste of packing material and an unnecessary drag from the packing".
Experience will soon dawn on you as to what each stuffing box will need for trouble free service. Your most critical stuffing box is your piston rod packing. Its new packing will soon become seated in for miles of trouble free service. It takes persistant adjusting attention for about the first 150 miles, depending on the condition of the piston rods. After that, routine adjusting of the stuffing box packing nut by maybe one flat could be expected about every 200+ miles. Running with leaking piston rod packing will quickly require replacing all of the packing for that one stuffing box because the steam will wire cut all the packing out if allowed to leak steam. Usually one does not carry enough piston rod packing with them to do a complete roadside repack for the missing piston rod packing. Over an hour can be expected to be spent on repacking a hot empty piston rod stuffing box. Anytime that a piston rod is out of an engine and if it may be bent, scored,or pitted, do not put it back in with out first having it hard chromed. Hard chromed piston rods are a world of improvement over piston rods needing attention. Another point is to never hammer your packing flatter on the cement sidewalk to make it fit easier. Sand from the cement is picked up in the packing and it will score your piston rods making them leak worse. If you must flatten your packing, pick a clean surfaces on which to hammer on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2012 06:49PM by SSsssteamer.

Pat,,, Thanks so verry mutch for posting these details,,,,and may your posts draw others to post so many of these details NOT in the book,,
Thanks to Rolly for his valuable additions as well,,,
Now if we all can remember what thread it was in,,,
One more detail??,,,Do I remember that if you overtighten a packing,,,you can't really back it off again,,,,
Please comment on this if you will,,,,Thanks,,,,Ben

Ben, You are correct about over tightening the packing and not being able to return it to its "before tightening" condition. Once you have overtightened your packing, you have crushed the packing fibers where by the packing remains tighter. Backing off of the stuffing box nut will only relieve a small part of the added packing drag. Eventually the added packing drag will wear in.

I wasnt sure if this would score the shaft,,,,,Ben

Scoring? Ben, you are right about that too. Over tightening will prevent proper lubrication of the packing and promote scoring. Over tightening the packing can also create hard spots in the packing that can cut the finish (scoring) on a piston rods' nice finish. This excessive/rapid wear will eventually wear the sealing area of the piston rod into an hour glass shape making it even harder to retain a good low maintenance stuffing box seal.

Will this also be true of the pump rods?? Ben

Original Stanley packing is copper type wire impregnated with graphite. This stuff is hard and for the most part cannot be tightened up after set. If you haven’t removed the head or packing body to hammer it out from the backside it will not blow out with the steam pressure.
Doble use to compress his packing in a die and install it as a solid unit. Once the heat expanded it was set, no added tightening was necessary.
I still use one band of copper packing and one band of graphite. I prefer 440 stainless rods instead of hard chrome. Each to his own. I don’t think using any type of torque wrench will ever make it.

Rolly

Now what do you guys suggest for those of us that are still running the packing and or shafts that grandad put in,,,
Cheers,,from Ben,,,Presedant of the Proscrastination Scioety,,

Dear Ben and Rolly, I would only use the copper packing on piston rods that were about worn out. Copper packing lasts and lasts, outlasts the piston rods... Caution should be taken on using copper packing against finely polished piston rods. For old the piston rods that grand dad ran, the copper packing would work quite well. I am careful in not using any metalic packings on my clean piston rods. There is also a packing out that is suppose to work really well but it has stainless steel shavings in it. I will never use that one. Sure it lasts, but what does it do to a finely finished piston rod? Vintage Steam products offers the best piston rod packing for the money. It is the #238 John Crane 1625G @ $2.15/foot. It is".... 1/8" square, woven high temperature, graphite fiber packing. Good for over 1,000 degrees F on reciprocating parts such as valve rods, piston rods and throttle shafts." No damage to your finish on your piston rods if properly used. Use the correct packing for the correct application. The test of time will always determine what works best.