Hey Guys,

I'm looking for tips and insight on the install of a 30HP boiler in my 740 chassis. Obviously there is some adjustments to be made (as I understand about 3" forward relocation of the front cross member) and I'll be fitting and checking as I go. The old boiler is tired and I don't want to try anything with a copper re-tubed originally steel tubed boiler, so it's definitely coming out. I know there are thoughts and opinions on the extra weight and such of the 30HP boiler up front, but for my desires and wants, I've already decided on the 30HP (working on shipping now). I am interested in any experience in these swaps. Thanks for all the help in advance!

Jared

I did the change over to the 30 hp boiler in my 1922 model 735 B about twenty years ago and I wish that I never had done it. The added weight made for harder steering. The larger boiler blocks the air circulation behind the condenser so bad that it doesn't cool the condensate enough and it overheats the water tank to the point of the feed water not pumping because it is flashing into steam. If I drive at 40 MPH or less, the condenser can keep up with cooling the returned water. If that is all that the faster that I can travel and keep my water cool, then I would have been better off with the lighter 20 hp boiler. I could have still used my 20 hp burner and that would have save me a pile of money too. The change over is reversible so the next boiler change out for me will be back to the 20 hp boiler from the 30 hp boiler. The 30 hp can maintain about 60 mph on a flat road, that is until the water tank gets too hot. If I were to run as non-condensing and dump my condensate like Christopher Roberts does with his model 740, then I wouldn't have any water pumping problems. If I were to remove my condenser and clean it out to perfectly clean, that could very well help improve the cooling too. With my old 20 hp boiler that I had, my condenser never did have a cooling problem.

Excellent information. I hadn't really decided if I was going to run condensing or not. I'm sure people have a lot of opinions on that (and I'm happy to hear) but I didn't' plan on adding the separators and extra trouble for the first "restoration". Maybe something to tinker with later.

For the 30HP boiler, does the cross member need much modification? As seen in the previous pictures, it's already got the rivets out for a move. The frame tapers here and I assume that it would require some re-work to the height that mates with the frame rails (nothing that scares me, just planning). Any specifics on distance, ie can the cross member be moved so the last rivet hole in the cross member goes in the front frame rail hole and just drill the additional holes?

I'm not above "figuring out the best fit" on my own but would love to hear how others have done it.

The cross member moves forward only enough to get the boiler in and no more. I don't remember if I could re-use any of the matching holes. Rather that riveting, I bolted the cross member back into place. The clearance between the condenser's lower hose connection and the boiler was quite a challenge. I had to custom remake the lower connection because of the space limitation between the condenser and the boiler. Likewise, I had to reroute the returning water line to the water tank through the spring shackle. The return line also crowded my view of lighting my pilot light. It was dominoes all of the way. I would change one thing and there was another in line to be change because of my last change.

If you are having problems with shipping, a lot of people don't know that Fastenal Store will ship for you. I ship boilers using Fastenal quite a bit. Bill

Thanks for the replies.

Bill - I may just go with Fastenal. We have shipped a few items with Fastenal and have had decent results. I'm going to work on getting it crated well as this means the world when it comes to successful shipping. Thanks!

Jared

Howard Johnson in ILL. has experience with this as well in his 1917. If memory serves me well, he moved the condenser forward, and lengthened the hood. Howard's e-mail is Howard Johnson <steamworks@att.net>

Try putting two boilers in.
Rolly

I have a 30 h.p. boiler installed in my 1922 Stanley Brougham. It makes a huge difference in performance! I however do not use the condenser, and run a total loss non condensing. As different bodies and weight will have an impact on performance, I find I can go 15 - 18 miles on a tank of water, (28 gallons). The extra weight will change the front axle geometry, and you will have to add shims and possibly add spring leaves into the front springs to handle the added weight. I only had to add the shims to correct the caster. I also found that moving the front cross member 2" worked, so the first hole became the last hole mounting the front cross member.

Thanks for the reference on the geometry and the crossmember! Do you run the kidney gauge and all other stock items? I'm currently considering just going with a direct reading water glass and was going to see if the bigger boiler could fit with the front cross member in it's original location with the obvious need to a slightly different geometry exhaust duct. I think the biggest question with that is if the steering box has enough room.

Also, if the crossmember must be moved, did you need to modify it much? It seems the frame's "C-Section" is tapering in front of the cross member and it would see that the crossmember would need to be squeezed down some... Thanks!

I moved my cross member forward. I drilled out the rivets and moved the front cross member forward. there are no alterations to the front cross member. The frame does have a slight taper, however nothing major to move the front cross member. On the heavier cars it is a good idea for a 30 h.p. boiler, however as like Pat Farrell said, a touring car, there is not enough addition to power or reserve to make it worth while. Ron Parrola also added a fan in front of his 1922 7 passenger touring to help with condensing. I decided to eliminate the oil in the water tank by going non condensing. There is not enough room to move the rear cross member back. I do have the kidney gauge as well as a sight glass installed in the car. The kidney gauge still has enough room to be removed if it ever needs attention. When I put my burner up I looked to see the best possible angle to see and light the pilot. This in turn placed the branch forks in line with the return line form the condenser to the water tank. Running non condensing does have drawbacks, I an only go about 15 - 18 miles on a tank of water. It also depends if I blow the whistle as I have a locomotive whistle from the Virginia and Truckee #25-1, a 4-4-0 (there were 2 # 25 for the railroad) and takes a good amount of steam. I have traveled over 100 miles in a day with the Stanley with no problems, only stopping for at the most 10 minutes for water.

When I had my 1920, I used Mobil 1 synthetic number 634 gear oil ISO 460 it’s the same ISO as steam cylinder oil. I still use it in my EX as it flows and pumps easer. It does not mix with the water. The condenser stays nice and clean and it remains on top of the water in the tank. When you fill the water tank it goes out the over flow pipe. The first thing I did was make up a steam lance and steamed cleaned the water tank inside. When I piped up the condenser I installed a three-way ball valve so I could flush the condenser now and then. I never had to, the condenser stayed nice and clean.

Last year I road with David Negaard for about 170 miles he has a route blower driven from his exhaust steam driving a fan on his condenser. We still had water in the tank at the end of the day. My friend Craig last weekend drove down with his 740 from NH 70 miles and still had half a tank of water left. He has no fan. Just a nice clean 740 with a new boiler.
Rolly