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Questions about the Lamount boiler.
Posted by: Caleb Ramsby (IP Logged)
Date: October 19, 2002 04:41PM
<HTML>I have been reading about the Lamount boiler and I am a little confused.
It is hard for me to tell exactly what is being circulated. The design looks like a water tube boiler with a fire tube boiler beside it(without the firetubes) which circulates the water/steam from the water tube boiler to the reserve tank. Is this right?
Is the main boiler a mono tube design or are there a series of tube paths?
Also, it apears to me that although I only see only one circulating pump, there are a few seperate paths of circulation. Such as the hot water circulating with the hot water, steam circulating with the steam.
Is there STEAM in the reserve cylinder??? I can't tell.
If so, isn't this creating the same EXPLOSIVE danger that a fire tube presents? What would happen if I took a pick ax and when the boiler was at full steam, created a hole in the reserve tank? Would it not blow up?
Until I know otherwise I will assume the worst. That it would explode.
Assuming this, would replacing the reserve tank with some pipes that are about five or six times larger in diameter than those in the boiler and then placing those larger tubes in a canister reduce the risk of explosion. With this configuration one could even place a small burner in the reserve tank if one so wished.
Another thing that I am VERY CONFUSED about is the superheater! In the advantages part of the description it says that there is no build up of contaminants in the superheater. Is the steam in the superheater being circulated? If so to where? Is there a bypass valve after the superheater and before the valve that goes to the engine? If so where does this go?
I would greatly appreciate a more indepth description of this boiler or a reference to a book that would describe it in great detail.
It appears that this boiler or a similar one with an active circulation would be the main canidet for a steam powerplant that can supply a wide band of power usage.
I am getting dizzy with questions any help would be appreciated.
Caleb Ramsby</HTML>
It is hard for me to tell exactly what is being circulated. The design looks like a water tube boiler with a fire tube boiler beside it(without the firetubes) which circulates the water/steam from the water tube boiler to the reserve tank. Is this right?
Is the main boiler a mono tube design or are there a series of tube paths?
Also, it apears to me that although I only see only one circulating pump, there are a few seperate paths of circulation. Such as the hot water circulating with the hot water, steam circulating with the steam.
Is there STEAM in the reserve cylinder??? I can't tell.
If so, isn't this creating the same EXPLOSIVE danger that a fire tube presents? What would happen if I took a pick ax and when the boiler was at full steam, created a hole in the reserve tank? Would it not blow up?
Until I know otherwise I will assume the worst. That it would explode.
Assuming this, would replacing the reserve tank with some pipes that are about five or six times larger in diameter than those in the boiler and then placing those larger tubes in a canister reduce the risk of explosion. With this configuration one could even place a small burner in the reserve tank if one so wished.
Another thing that I am VERY CONFUSED about is the superheater! In the advantages part of the description it says that there is no build up of contaminants in the superheater. Is the steam in the superheater being circulated? If so to where? Is there a bypass valve after the superheater and before the valve that goes to the engine? If so where does this go?
I would greatly appreciate a more indepth description of this boiler or a reference to a book that would describe it in great detail.
It appears that this boiler or a similar one with an active circulation would be the main canidet for a steam powerplant that can supply a wide band of power usage.
I am getting dizzy with questions any help would be appreciated.
Caleb Ramsby</HTML>
Re: Questions about the Lamount boiler.
Posted by: David K Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: October 19, 2002 07:28PM
<HTML>May I suggest "Combustion Engineering" edited by L. de Lorenzi, published by Combustion Engineering Inc., 1st. ed. 1957. It has a chapter on forced circulation boilers. C. E. was a major competitor to Babcock and Wilcox in those days.</HTML>
Re: Questions about the Lamount boiler.
Posted by: Caleb Ramsby (IP Logged)
Date: October 19, 2002 07:34PM
<HTML>Thanks, David
I will pick up a copy of Combustion Engineering. I just did a search in the archives on the Lamont boiler and found a VERY long thread on just that.
I should have looked there first, sorry!
Caleb Ramsby</HTML>
I will pick up a copy of Combustion Engineering. I just did a search in the archives on the Lamont boiler and found a VERY long thread on just that.
I should have looked there first, sorry!
Caleb Ramsby</HTML>
Re: Questions about the Lamount boiler.
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: October 20, 2002 04:33AM
<HTML>Hi Caleb,
In the Lamont, you have 4 parts. Follow the water. First water from the boiler feed pump enters a monotube coil, where it picks up the last heat of the departing hot gases from the burner. Then it flows into a tall insulated drum with steam at the top and water at the bottom, and no firetubes or heat input. A circulating pump pulls water out of the bottom of the drum and circulates it through a monotube coil located right over (and around, etc) the fire, where part of the water (up to 1/5 by weight in George's designs) turns into steam. How much of the water is turned into steam is determined by the interplay of firing rate and circulating pump rate. The mixture of water and steam from the outlet end of this generating coil returns to the drum, where the steam separates to the top of the drum and the water drops to the bottom of the drum for recirculation. Steam is then drawn off the top of the drum, runs through the superheater coil, and off to the engine. Feed water input can be controlled by sensing the water level in the drum.
The only circulation is from the drum to the hottest monotube (generating) section, and back again. That is where the steam is generated. Water & steam flow through the economizer and superheater are once-through; in and out, not circulated.
Economizer, drum, generating coils, and superheater are the 4 sections in a Lamont. Then there is the circulating pump between the drum and the generating coils. Darned good boiler design if you can work out the circulating pump and drum.
You probably could create a bit of noise by hitting the drum with a good sharp pickaxe. I don't think that this, or Ben's anti-gas-car drum slingshot, is allowed by the boiler code. :)
Peter</HTML>
In the Lamont, you have 4 parts. Follow the water. First water from the boiler feed pump enters a monotube coil, where it picks up the last heat of the departing hot gases from the burner. Then it flows into a tall insulated drum with steam at the top and water at the bottom, and no firetubes or heat input. A circulating pump pulls water out of the bottom of the drum and circulates it through a monotube coil located right over (and around, etc) the fire, where part of the water (up to 1/5 by weight in George's designs) turns into steam. How much of the water is turned into steam is determined by the interplay of firing rate and circulating pump rate. The mixture of water and steam from the outlet end of this generating coil returns to the drum, where the steam separates to the top of the drum and the water drops to the bottom of the drum for recirculation. Steam is then drawn off the top of the drum, runs through the superheater coil, and off to the engine. Feed water input can be controlled by sensing the water level in the drum.
The only circulation is from the drum to the hottest monotube (generating) section, and back again. That is where the steam is generated. Water & steam flow through the economizer and superheater are once-through; in and out, not circulated.
Economizer, drum, generating coils, and superheater are the 4 sections in a Lamont. Then there is the circulating pump between the drum and the generating coils. Darned good boiler design if you can work out the circulating pump and drum.
You probably could create a bit of noise by hitting the drum with a good sharp pickaxe. I don't think that this, or Ben's anti-gas-car drum slingshot, is allowed by the boiler code. :)
Peter</HTML>
Re: Questions about the Lamount boiler.
Posted by: Caleb Ramsby (IP Logged)
Date: October 20, 2002 05:56PM
<HTML>Peter,
Thanks for the explanation of the Lamont circulation system. I couldn't get a good idea from the "artists conception". There isn't a very clear(to me at least) physical description of where the water/steam goes and where it doesn't.
I read all of the very long boiler only thread with great interist and learned a whole lot.
I wish to know more about this B&W book that is often refered to. About 90% of my colection of my books are of the technical type with a vast subject range. So if it is very technical and mathy, I wan't it even more. I prefer to encounter a project or idea with a full understanding of why things happen. Not, just a plain if this happens then this happens, with no real explenation of what is actualy going on. This is my main beef with most books that do one a "favor" by omiting the intensly interisting technical and mathematical factors and forces involved.
Caleb Ramsby</HTML>
Thanks for the explanation of the Lamont circulation system. I couldn't get a good idea from the "artists conception". There isn't a very clear(to me at least) physical description of where the water/steam goes and where it doesn't.
I read all of the very long boiler only thread with great interist and learned a whole lot.
I wish to know more about this B&W book that is often refered to. About 90% of my colection of my books are of the technical type with a vast subject range. So if it is very technical and mathy, I wan't it even more. I prefer to encounter a project or idea with a full understanding of why things happen. Not, just a plain if this happens then this happens, with no real explenation of what is actualy going on. This is my main beef with most books that do one a "favor" by omiting the intensly interisting technical and mathematical factors and forces involved.
Caleb Ramsby</HTML>
Re: Questions about the Lamount boiler.
Posted by: Caleb Ramsby (IP Logged)
Date: October 20, 2002 10:49PM
<HTML>Well,
I just looked back at David's post about Combustion Engineering and saw Babcock and Wilcox! Close enough to B&W for me.
Is there a particular edition that is more complete than another or are they all basicaly the same?
Thanks again guys.
Caleb Ramsby</HTML>
I just looked back at David's post about Combustion Engineering and saw Babcock and Wilcox! Close enough to B&W for me.
Is there a particular edition that is more complete than another or are they all basicaly the same?
Thanks again guys.
Caleb Ramsby</HTML>
Re: Questions about the Lamount boiler.
Posted by: David K Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: October 20, 2002 11:19PM
<HTML>I think the best editions of B & W's "Steam" are the 35th. and 36th. Later ones spend a lot of effort on atomic power plants, NOT the thing for car buffs.</HTML>
Re: Questions about the Lamount boiler.
Posted by: Caleb Ramsby (IP Logged)
Date: October 29, 2002 03:25PM
<HTML>I was wondering if the Lamont boilers resevour canister is dependant on gravity to keep the water from going out the steam outlet? The reason I ask is because I am thinking of all the conditions that a IC engine encounters and what type of boiler would cope with all of those same conditions.
For instance in stunt planes the vehicle is often inverted. Now if the boiler depends on gravity it would not work in this application. If you think that a steam engine plane sounds absurd go to [www.nurflugel.com] . Scroll way down until you get to the 1933 Besler steam engine. I think that the steam engine comunity could obtain the most recognition for the advancement of steam engine technology via a steam powered plane. Especialy if the complete engine package is on the same level of weight, power and effeciency as the IC engines used today. One major advantage would be the variety of fuels that the steam engine could use, it would not need the special aircraft fuels that IC engine require.
I don't think that the piston engine realy fits in with the advancement of steam engines. They have worked well for many, many years but the time has come to go on to new designs. I have about five engine designs that I have come up with, none use pistons and all are positive displacement. Only two of them show promise. I had to invent my own valve's which would help the IC field greatly, I shold start manufacturing and patent these valves first. One I came up with only two weeks ago will be VERY easy to manufacture and have a high mechanical advantage on the output shaft a large % of the time. No, I am not trying to solicit any funding, nor do I want any. I am not trying to claim 300 horsepower from a 2 pound expander either. I am just letting you guys know that I am working on a few engine designs and when I eventualy get a prototypes running and the prototypes patented then I will let you guys know about the details. Even then I won't ask for funding. Just letting you all know that there is another mad inventor on the case. The only problem is that every time I get to the stage of patenting I come up with another invention in another completely different field and drop everything to focus on the new one. This is more of a problem then it may seem. I don't know why I am telling you all this, it just seems like the thing to do I guese.
Caleb Ramsby</HTML>
For instance in stunt planes the vehicle is often inverted. Now if the boiler depends on gravity it would not work in this application. If you think that a steam engine plane sounds absurd go to [www.nurflugel.com] . Scroll way down until you get to the 1933 Besler steam engine. I think that the steam engine comunity could obtain the most recognition for the advancement of steam engine technology via a steam powered plane. Especialy if the complete engine package is on the same level of weight, power and effeciency as the IC engines used today. One major advantage would be the variety of fuels that the steam engine could use, it would not need the special aircraft fuels that IC engine require.
I don't think that the piston engine realy fits in with the advancement of steam engines. They have worked well for many, many years but the time has come to go on to new designs. I have about five engine designs that I have come up with, none use pistons and all are positive displacement. Only two of them show promise. I had to invent my own valve's which would help the IC field greatly, I shold start manufacturing and patent these valves first. One I came up with only two weeks ago will be VERY easy to manufacture and have a high mechanical advantage on the output shaft a large % of the time. No, I am not trying to solicit any funding, nor do I want any. I am not trying to claim 300 horsepower from a 2 pound expander either. I am just letting you guys know that I am working on a few engine designs and when I eventualy get a prototypes running and the prototypes patented then I will let you guys know about the details. Even then I won't ask for funding. Just letting you all know that there is another mad inventor on the case. The only problem is that every time I get to the stage of patenting I come up with another invention in another completely different field and drop everything to focus on the new one. This is more of a problem then it may seem. I don't know why I am telling you all this, it just seems like the thing to do I guese.
Caleb Ramsby</HTML>
pictures of Lamount boiler.
Posted by: ashok (IP Logged)
Date: August 10, 2005 08:32AM
<HTML>send me information on boiler & its picture</HTML>
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