1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
FROM WATER
Posted by: EARL C. LEAVEY (IP Logged)
Date: December 09, 2002 02:13PM
<HTML>CHECK OUT THIS LINK www.genesisworldenergy.org</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER
Posted by: tom ward (IP Logged)
Date: December 12, 2002 08:29AM
<HTML>Notice they never used the term kilowatt/hour. And what is this special catalyst? How about naming the team leaders or are they just a group of old cold fusion folks?</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER
Posted by: chuk williams (IP Logged)
Date: December 12, 2002 02:41PM
<HTML>And try getting info from them---everytime I tried to contact
them, I got a blank page!!!</HTML>
them, I got a blank page!!!</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: December 12, 2002 07:33PM
<HTML>Here is the info on the secret catalyst you are looking for. It is Potassium Hydroxide. KOH or more commonly known as Draino! This makes the water conductive so that the electrolysis can take place easier. Remember that energy can neither be created or destroyed. So you would be better off using the electricity to heat your home rather than feeding a Hydrogen Oxygen furnace fed by their machine. There is a neat gizmo on the market for Jewlers to use soldering with Oxygen and Hydrogen made by electrolysis. It's designed for use in Malls and buildings where the building code does not allow compressed gas cylinders. Check out [www.okaicorp.com]
Dick</HTML>
Dick</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER
Posted by: tom ward (IP Logged)
Date: December 12, 2002 08:19PM
<HTML>Could these folks be using the KOH as part of a aluminum-air fuel cell. This device can put out kwh's for a long time. A great way to make an "over unity engine" that could run for months until the aluminum was entirely consumed. By then the salesman is on 'vacation' in Bora bora.</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER
Posted by: tom ward (IP Logged)
Date: December 12, 2002 08:34PM
<HTML>One of these gas generators along with a pair of compressors could fill a pair of super compressed tanks. Solar cells or a wind turbine could provide the kilowatt hours. The oxygen and hydrogen could recombine in the cylinders of an aphoid engine. It would be essentially the most efficient steam engine possible. The steam produced would be several thousand degrees hot for a few microseconds. The steam rate could drop to 2 lbs/hp/hr.</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER : aphoid engine
Posted by: G. B. Gilbert (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2002 01:38AM
<HTML>i put the phrase "aphoid engine" into google and dogpile and got zero results; can you describe it?</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER : aphoid engine
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2002 02:19AM
<HTML>OK Tom ,
Here's your big chance.
Make it a good one...don't skimp on the details.
The Left coast needs a good chuckle.
Thanks,
DV</HTML>
Here's your big chance.
Make it a good one...don't skimp on the details.
The Left coast needs a good chuckle.
Thanks,
DV</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER : aphoid engine
Posted by: tom ward (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2002 07:33AM
<HTML>Aphiod means an engine that does not need atmospheric air to operate, like a rocket engine.</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER : aphoid engine
Posted by: tom ward (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2002 07:58AM
<HTML>As an engine, like a rocket, it is not dependent on the atmosphere. It has not yet seen use outside of a few labs. In the past it needed either cryogenic or very heavy tanks to hold the reactants. The use of new composite tanks for super compressed natural gas vehicles may make the concept practical. The cost of electricity still makes it far from being cost competitive. Used with a condensor it would be silent and polution free. The research into fuel cell vehicles, if ever mass produced, could provide a DIY with affordable parts. The production of hydrogen powered vehicle engines would simplify conversions even more. Never say never when the physics says its possible.</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER : aphoid engine
Posted by: tom ward (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2002 08:22AM
<HTML>Check out U.S. Pat.#3,101,592</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER : aphoid engine
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2002 01:58PM
<HTML>Here Here!
Hurray for Crank!
I third the motion.
DV</HTML>
Hurray for Crank!
I third the motion.
DV</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER : aphoid engine
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2002 03:00PM
<HTML>Hi Dick,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. Sometimes I think I am the only one that sees this political pandering and the idiot media grabbing on to any crackpot scheme to eliminate the IC engine for what it is. They ain't going to make it and tens of millions of our tax dollars are spent on these unworkable ideas.
It sure doesn't take a genius to see the engineering stupidity in these government grant grabs by phony science and warped thinking.
Don't get me started on the CARB, they are the absolute worst!! At least Gov. Davis clamped down on eliminating the Diesel by those CARB fools.
Call me some evening when the rain stops and let's take the Doble out and have lunch.
JC</HTML>
Thanks for the vote of confidence. Sometimes I think I am the only one that sees this political pandering and the idiot media grabbing on to any crackpot scheme to eliminate the IC engine for what it is. They ain't going to make it and tens of millions of our tax dollars are spent on these unworkable ideas.
It sure doesn't take a genius to see the engineering stupidity in these government grant grabs by phony science and warped thinking.
Don't get me started on the CARB, they are the absolute worst!! At least Gov. Davis clamped down on eliminating the Diesel by those CARB fools.
Call me some evening when the rain stops and let's take the Doble out and have lunch.
JC</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER : aphoid engine
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2002 04:11PM
<HTML>Jim,</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER : aphoid engine
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2002 04:53PM
<HTML>Jim,
On my second try, I agree 100%. It seems no one is looking for what we need and can use right now. Fuel cells might be the future but that is a long way off and the world needs a solution now. I just heard about GM's hywire project, a completely computer controlled, hydrogen burning project auto. Even the steering is fly by wire, no direct control. They told how clean it was, how little noise it made except when the air compressor ran and how smooth it drove. What they didn't mention is there is no retail outlet available to fill the tank, how many miles that tank would propel the vehicle, how much fuel is lost while the vehicle is not running, what the costs might be and all the information one would need to determine if it was a success or not. You might as well do laps around Lear's parking lot in his steam bus.
As I lay on my couch thinking the other day I was pondering the dismissal of steam by the auto makers and I realized how complex the reasons might be. Of course, to change costs money and as Henery Ford Jr said "we have great investments in engines, transmissions and axles and I can't see throwing it all away just because the electric car doesn't emit fumes". On the other side of this coin would be the huge expendatures made to produce gas turbines, electric vehicles, hybrids and fuel cell systems. I don't think all the major auto manufacturers together spent on steam development what most individually spent on gas turbine projects. So maybe cost is not a main factor, maybe the real key to the puzzle seems to be the technology and its availability to the masses. It seems the auto companies don't like to produce anything just anyone can build themselves or even work on. For that matter parts availability from aftermarket sources is drying up for new vehicles. Control is a key issue, just look at battery development, if you want to develop new battery technology, you will either liscense it from the auto makers or invent new types of cells. Of the last 100 battery technology patents, the auto makers hold about 90 of them, not to use but to control the use of.
I guess it is up to the backyard kooks like me to build the proof but I somehow believe people of steam will have to band together to influence the law makers of this country, with a unity too strong to be brushed aside as in the past.
Peter Heid</HTML>
On my second try, I agree 100%. It seems no one is looking for what we need and can use right now. Fuel cells might be the future but that is a long way off and the world needs a solution now. I just heard about GM's hywire project, a completely computer controlled, hydrogen burning project auto. Even the steering is fly by wire, no direct control. They told how clean it was, how little noise it made except when the air compressor ran and how smooth it drove. What they didn't mention is there is no retail outlet available to fill the tank, how many miles that tank would propel the vehicle, how much fuel is lost while the vehicle is not running, what the costs might be and all the information one would need to determine if it was a success or not. You might as well do laps around Lear's parking lot in his steam bus.
As I lay on my couch thinking the other day I was pondering the dismissal of steam by the auto makers and I realized how complex the reasons might be. Of course, to change costs money and as Henery Ford Jr said "we have great investments in engines, transmissions and axles and I can't see throwing it all away just because the electric car doesn't emit fumes". On the other side of this coin would be the huge expendatures made to produce gas turbines, electric vehicles, hybrids and fuel cell systems. I don't think all the major auto manufacturers together spent on steam development what most individually spent on gas turbine projects. So maybe cost is not a main factor, maybe the real key to the puzzle seems to be the technology and its availability to the masses. It seems the auto companies don't like to produce anything just anyone can build themselves or even work on. For that matter parts availability from aftermarket sources is drying up for new vehicles. Control is a key issue, just look at battery development, if you want to develop new battery technology, you will either liscense it from the auto makers or invent new types of cells. Of the last 100 battery technology patents, the auto makers hold about 90 of them, not to use but to control the use of.
I guess it is up to the backyard kooks like me to build the proof but I somehow believe people of steam will have to band together to influence the law makers of this country, with a unity too strong to be brushed aside as in the past.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER : aphoid engine
Posted by: George Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2002 07:24PM
<HTML>Peter,
I am afraid that I am a pessimist about steam ever becoming a viable power source in automobiles, no matter what is done. Reaching diesel efficiencies of 40% are near impossible at this time and the complexity of the system to do it makes the simple steam engine a very difficult monster to tame. As long as water is the medium and the Mollier Chart stands as is makes the task near impossible. I think we are all in it for the love of this magnificient smooth power source but love of it will not solve all of its inherent limitations no matter what we do. I would rather settle back and persue a comfortable steam project that yields pleasurable results and not consider ultimate miles per gallon or other sought after goals. We are all in this for the fun and joy of it and the biggest army we could ever muster would be the size of a small company in military terms. May we all make the very best that we can and forget about taking over the automotive world, just an ol' pessimist yakking!
Good luck with the Vaped, may you make the best steam bike that has ever existed and I cheer you on, just don't take it too seriously. I would hope someday that someone would modernize the "STILL" engine that was diesel top and steam bottom, had the highest efficiencies of its day/40%+, at least it would have steam involved in it. That could be a very viable engine in the 60mpg range.
Best of holidays, George
PS: does the "aphoid" engine have to do with how much someone could "afford" for it, just that in old New Jersey it was pronounced like that? ;-)</HTML>
I am afraid that I am a pessimist about steam ever becoming a viable power source in automobiles, no matter what is done. Reaching diesel efficiencies of 40% are near impossible at this time and the complexity of the system to do it makes the simple steam engine a very difficult monster to tame. As long as water is the medium and the Mollier Chart stands as is makes the task near impossible. I think we are all in it for the love of this magnificient smooth power source but love of it will not solve all of its inherent limitations no matter what we do. I would rather settle back and persue a comfortable steam project that yields pleasurable results and not consider ultimate miles per gallon or other sought after goals. We are all in this for the fun and joy of it and the biggest army we could ever muster would be the size of a small company in military terms. May we all make the very best that we can and forget about taking over the automotive world, just an ol' pessimist yakking!
Good luck with the Vaped, may you make the best steam bike that has ever existed and I cheer you on, just don't take it too seriously. I would hope someday that someone would modernize the "STILL" engine that was diesel top and steam bottom, had the highest efficiencies of its day/40%+, at least it would have steam involved in it. That could be a very viable engine in the 60mpg range.
Best of holidays, George
PS: does the "aphoid" engine have to do with how much someone could "afford" for it, just that in old New Jersey it was pronounced like that? ;-)</HTML>
STEAM FROM WATER
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2002 08:50PM
<HTML>Negative George,
Actually, the most efficient IC engines ever produced would be the free piston engines with efficiencies over 50% but applying it is more difficult with no rotating shaft.
One thing your forgetting is maximum efficiency will not always yield the least pollution especially when considering the enviroment of combustion in a IC engine. The diesel is being outlawed in many cities because of the pyrenes and other previously unrecognized poisionous pollutants. What good is efficiency if you can't live with the polution it makes ? A steam engine of lower efficiency can very well pollute less than that of higher efficiency IC engine and can do so on many different fuels. Efficiency will not seem quite as important when gasoline and diesel are over $5.00/gal, affordable fuel and emissions will top the list.
When the average person can't afford to fuel or even buy a car, the backyard kooks like us will rule the roost. I could make a living building several vehicles a year to market to the needy when the economic/fuel crunch is on.
Looking back to see where others have gone provides some direction but the path will be lost unless we look ahead and think ahead.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Actually, the most efficient IC engines ever produced would be the free piston engines with efficiencies over 50% but applying it is more difficult with no rotating shaft.
One thing your forgetting is maximum efficiency will not always yield the least pollution especially when considering the enviroment of combustion in a IC engine. The diesel is being outlawed in many cities because of the pyrenes and other previously unrecognized poisionous pollutants. What good is efficiency if you can't live with the polution it makes ? A steam engine of lower efficiency can very well pollute less than that of higher efficiency IC engine and can do so on many different fuels. Efficiency will not seem quite as important when gasoline and diesel are over $5.00/gal, affordable fuel and emissions will top the list.
When the average person can't afford to fuel or even buy a car, the backyard kooks like us will rule the roost. I could make a living building several vehicles a year to market to the needy when the economic/fuel crunch is on.
Looking back to see where others have gone provides some direction but the path will be lost unless we look ahead and think ahead.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: STEAM FROM WATER
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: December 14, 2002 12:26AM
<HTML>Peter and George,
No one is going to get any normal car maker to do steam systems. The infrastructure to supply such an endevor is just not going to have any luck.
They are and will be well entrenched in the IC engine, Otto or Diesel, for decades to come.m Government posturing notwithstanding.
If you want to protect yourself and have a usable car stashed away, then go buy a small pickup and install a wood producer gas plant in the back.
That one will never be subject to government takeover. You need nothing but your little hatchet and someone's fence to be mobile.
JC</HTML>
No one is going to get any normal car maker to do steam systems. The infrastructure to supply such an endevor is just not going to have any luck.
They are and will be well entrenched in the IC engine, Otto or Diesel, for decades to come.m Government posturing notwithstanding.
If you want to protect yourself and have a usable car stashed away, then go buy a small pickup and install a wood producer gas plant in the back.
That one will never be subject to government takeover. You need nothing but your little hatchet and someone's fence to be mobile.
JC</HTML>
Re: STEAM FROM WATER
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: December 14, 2002 03:06AM
<HTML>Jim,
Your correct again. I already have the book "Producer Gas for Motor Vehicles" and find it very enlightening. A developed and accessable technology that is great for emergency transportation in times of limited or no liquid fuels. If you plan to use this technology though, forget emission control and modern vehicles not to mention efficiency. In the past the area where I live had all the trees were cut down for many miles around. The developing iron industry needed fuel and every tree except in the front yard was cut for charcoal. I have pictures of areas where no trees could be seen no matter which way you looked and many industrial towns disapeared when the fuel ran out. Like steam, producer gas vehicles can only be an temporary transportation solution if the planet is to survive.
The only way the auto manufacturers would change to steam is if IC engines were outlawed and an immediate solution was needed. There is no other viable alternative to our transportation needs, no mater what they promote.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Your correct again. I already have the book "Producer Gas for Motor Vehicles" and find it very enlightening. A developed and accessable technology that is great for emergency transportation in times of limited or no liquid fuels. If you plan to use this technology though, forget emission control and modern vehicles not to mention efficiency. In the past the area where I live had all the trees were cut down for many miles around. The developing iron industry needed fuel and every tree except in the front yard was cut for charcoal. I have pictures of areas where no trees could be seen no matter which way you looked and many industrial towns disapeared when the fuel ran out. Like steam, producer gas vehicles can only be an temporary transportation solution if the planet is to survive.
The only way the auto manufacturers would change to steam is if IC engines were outlawed and an immediate solution was needed. There is no other viable alternative to our transportation needs, no mater what they promote.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: STEAM FROM WATER
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: December 14, 2002 06:27AM
<HTML>Steam...Do It for FUN!
I can understand the need of some to make the next best invention for the good of all.
But in the meantime...Buy a powerstroke Diesel...tow your steam boat or homemade steam car someplace and have FUN! OR build something simple to get the attention of the next generation of engineers..and "backyard kooks" (I, of which am one)
I took the advice Jim is giving about 20 years ago!
Here is a total fun steam car that gets more "smiles" per gallon than any "superheated, double throwback, twice pipes conversion" with a chain steering wheel. One of my other hobbies as hosted by John on this site. [www.stanleysteamers.com] I am probably the seventh owner of this 1950's copy of "something". It is now powered by a 1902 Locomobile engine,watertube boiler, pressure atomising burner( Like the East coast furnaces) Converted to 12VDC and powered by a deep cycle marine battery with a Kubota alternator to make up some of the loss. The rear end is from a golfcart with a sprocket on the ring gear mounts of the reversed axle assembly. Turn the key Poof! and the steam pressure burner shuts offat 150 psi. Takes about 3 minutes to heat up and goes like Hell! It's licensed for the road but my neighborhood cops won't go for a ride.........ever again!
DV</HTML>
I can understand the need of some to make the next best invention for the good of all.
But in the meantime...Buy a powerstroke Diesel...tow your steam boat or homemade steam car someplace and have FUN! OR build something simple to get the attention of the next generation of engineers..and "backyard kooks" (I, of which am one)
I took the advice Jim is giving about 20 years ago!
Here is a total fun steam car that gets more "smiles" per gallon than any "superheated, double throwback, twice pipes conversion" with a chain steering wheel. One of my other hobbies as hosted by John on this site. [www.stanleysteamers.com] I am probably the seventh owner of this 1950's copy of "something". It is now powered by a 1902 Locomobile engine,watertube boiler, pressure atomising burner( Like the East coast furnaces) Converted to 12VDC and powered by a deep cycle marine battery with a Kubota alternator to make up some of the loss. The rear end is from a golfcart with a sprocket on the ring gear mounts of the reversed axle assembly. Turn the key Poof! and the steam pressure burner shuts offat 150 psi. Takes about 3 minutes to heat up and goes like Hell! It's licensed for the road but my neighborhood cops won't go for a ride.........ever again!
DV</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER : aphoid engine
Posted by: tom ward (IP Logged)
Date: December 14, 2002 02:37PM
<HTML>Patent 3,101,592 desrcibes a powerplant for a torpedo back in the 60's. I have no idea if it was used because my friend from high school who became a navy torpedo technician said the technology was top secret. As part of a weapons system the Pentagon could easily afford hand made engines that ran on magnesium superoxide and monocarbon hydrazine.
The indicator card for an aphoid would appear deceptively energy efficient. The compression line would be non-existent meaning the net amount of work done would equal the line for the expansion stroke. Compression is hidden in the energy used to manufacture the reactants and the extraction of the materials from nature. The oil companies don't tell us the how much energy is used in drilling dry wells, the production of steam to melt tar out of microscopic pores, the energy used for refining, and to tranport the fuel to your gas tank. Subtract all that from the already dismal efficiency of modern car engines and the Stanley burning home made moonshine starts looking like a mileage champion.</HTML>
The indicator card for an aphoid would appear deceptively energy efficient. The compression line would be non-existent meaning the net amount of work done would equal the line for the expansion stroke. Compression is hidden in the energy used to manufacture the reactants and the extraction of the materials from nature. The oil companies don't tell us the how much energy is used in drilling dry wells, the production of steam to melt tar out of microscopic pores, the energy used for refining, and to tranport the fuel to your gas tank. Subtract all that from the already dismal efficiency of modern car engines and the Stanley burning home made moonshine starts looking like a mileage champion.</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER : aphoid engine
Posted by: George Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: December 14, 2002 03:37PM
<HTML>Tom,
I have an old Navy friend that was in charge of a Navy research machine shop on torpedoes and he has often mentioned some of the esoteric research programs he was involved with, I will ask him about such a torpedo engine.
Good luck on making enough legal and non-taxable moonshine for the 6% efficient Stanley, lets see to travel 20K miles per year@8mpg(we should be able to do better than 50mph) would 2500 gallons of "moonshine" per year. If you are up to this task and can keep it legal all the more power to you. Your "subtraction" thesis being true we must remember that most existing steamers burn the same fuel as cars and diesels. A great alternative fuel for the pickup truck example of Jim's is an auger fed corn kernel boiler, auger feed solid fuel boilers have been made successfully in the past. 10,000BTU's/# of absolutely clean burning fuel without distillation or fermentation processees and huge quantities of it abound for ultra cheap fuel source, its rotting in huge silos almost for the taking. Now a car running along smelling like corn oil/pop corn would certainly be a novelty and attract public attention.
Happy Holidays, George ;-)</HTML>
I have an old Navy friend that was in charge of a Navy research machine shop on torpedoes and he has often mentioned some of the esoteric research programs he was involved with, I will ask him about such a torpedo engine.
Good luck on making enough legal and non-taxable moonshine for the 6% efficient Stanley, lets see to travel 20K miles per year@8mpg(we should be able to do better than 50mph) would 2500 gallons of "moonshine" per year. If you are up to this task and can keep it legal all the more power to you. Your "subtraction" thesis being true we must remember that most existing steamers burn the same fuel as cars and diesels. A great alternative fuel for the pickup truck example of Jim's is an auger fed corn kernel boiler, auger feed solid fuel boilers have been made successfully in the past. 10,000BTU's/# of absolutely clean burning fuel without distillation or fermentation processees and huge quantities of it abound for ultra cheap fuel source, its rotting in huge silos almost for the taking. Now a car running along smelling like corn oil/pop corn would certainly be a novelty and attract public attention.
Happy Holidays, George ;-)</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER
Posted by: Mike Bennett (IP Logged)
Date: December 15, 2002 05:25PM
<HTML>Earl,
ENTROPY ENTROPY ENTROPY Where is old Yule Brown when we need him!
If there is any "over unity " trick available, it is probably related to time anomily effects and resonant decay at the atomic level. What is the embodied energy of the manufacture of the catylist? Compares partial day consumption of 1050 btu scf gas to continous production of hydrogen. Does anyone have the btu data for scf of Hydrogen? SCAM SCAM SCAM! I guess that Tesla (REALLY my hero, amazing man!) has so been bloodied recently by Cons that they are now using Edison!
Thanks for all the stimulating discussion,
Regards,
Mike</HTML>
ENTROPY ENTROPY ENTROPY Where is old Yule Brown when we need him!
If there is any "over unity " trick available, it is probably related to time anomily effects and resonant decay at the atomic level. What is the embodied energy of the manufacture of the catylist? Compares partial day consumption of 1050 btu scf gas to continous production of hydrogen. Does anyone have the btu data for scf of Hydrogen? SCAM SCAM SCAM! I guess that Tesla (REALLY my hero, amazing man!) has so been bloodied recently by Cons that they are now using Edison!
Thanks for all the stimulating discussion,
Regards,
Mike</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER
Posted by: EARL C. LEAVEY (IP Logged)
Date: December 15, 2002 09:13PM
<HTML> HI! MIKE, THE HYDROGEN ECONOMY AND FUEL CELL HAVE MANY COMPANIES WORKING ON THE ON NEW TECHNOLOGIES. THIS LINK COULD BE LIKE THE GCELL. www.millennium.com ALSO, ENGINION CONTINUES TO WORK ON THE STEAM CELL www.europeanenergyfair.com/presentations.html I LIKE READING ABOUT STEAMBOATS , SO THIS LINK IS INTERESTING. www.pursuitdynamics.com . THOUGHT THAT THOSE ON THE MESSAGE BOARD WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THESE LINKS ON STEAM AND ENERGY. BEST WISHES, EARL</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: December 15, 2002 11:39PM
<HTML>OK,
So, I'm just dying to have the last word or chuckle.
Someone nailed a dozen signs on trees along the mountain road that I live on. They were just too pervasive and intrusive. I called the number listed on the signs and got a very polite Vietnamese gentleman who agreed they were on private property and would be removed. Here's what he was pitching on the signs [www.suntracking.com].
By the way the pursuit dynamics website above does a fair job of describing the function of a good old Penberthy injector. Still available from the manufacturer.
DV</HTML>
So, I'm just dying to have the last word or chuckle.
Someone nailed a dozen signs on trees along the mountain road that I live on. They were just too pervasive and intrusive. I called the number listed on the signs and got a very polite Vietnamese gentleman who agreed they were on private property and would be removed. Here's what he was pitching on the signs [www.suntracking.com].
By the way the pursuit dynamics website above does a fair job of describing the function of a good old Penberthy injector. Still available from the manufacturer.
DV</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER
Posted by: tom ward (IP Logged)
Date: December 16, 2002 09:07AM
<HTML>Hydrogen gives aound 60,000 btu/# but because of its low density a sfc is only about 300 btu</HTML>
Re: FROM WATER
Posted by: Mike Bennett (IP Logged)
Date: December 18, 2002 02:16PM
<HTML>Dick,
I am not laughing. I'm saddened. Having constructed, 3 years ago (after 2 years of selling the idea, desiging the system, inventing an emission offset for green lable metric system and applying for grants, then project management; only to be labled a green-washer) this system
[66.92.90.179] .
It is 144 kW (gross in theory) and 102.5 kW (net after inverters, rms) at a cost of over $1 million! (Note how much real estate it took).
I am angered by these con men! They are using the ignorant and the uncaring to promote there schemes, to the detriment of the many who are doing the hard (and often thankless) work.
Keep on steamin', I believe it is one of the many pieces of a total system solution!
Regards,
Mike
<a href="mailto:RVennerbeck@direcway.com?subject=Re: FROM WATER">Dick Vennerbeck</a> wrote:
>
> OK,
> So, I'm just dying to have the last word or chuckle.
> Someone nailed a dozen signs on trees along the mountain road
> that I live on. They were just too pervasive and intrusive. I
> called the number listed on the signs and got a very polite
> Vietnamese gentleman who agreed they were on private property
> and would be removed. Here's what he was pitching on the
> signs [www.suntracking.com].
> By the way the pursuit dynamics website above does a fair job
> of describing the function of a good old Penberthy injector.
> Still available from the manufacturer.
> DV</HTML>
I am not laughing. I'm saddened. Having constructed, 3 years ago (after 2 years of selling the idea, desiging the system, inventing an emission offset for green lable metric system and applying for grants, then project management; only to be labled a green-washer) this system
[66.92.90.179] .
It is 144 kW (gross in theory) and 102.5 kW (net after inverters, rms) at a cost of over $1 million! (Note how much real estate it took).
I am angered by these con men! They are using the ignorant and the uncaring to promote there schemes, to the detriment of the many who are doing the hard (and often thankless) work.
Keep on steamin', I believe it is one of the many pieces of a total system solution!
Regards,
Mike
<a href="mailto:RVennerbeck@direcway.com?subject=Re: FROM WATER">Dick Vennerbeck</a> wrote:
>
> OK,
> So, I'm just dying to have the last word or chuckle.
> Someone nailed a dozen signs on trees along the mountain road
> that I live on. They were just too pervasive and intrusive. I
> called the number listed on the signs and got a very polite
> Vietnamese gentleman who agreed they were on private property
> and would be removed. Here's what he was pitching on the
> signs [www.suntracking.com].
> By the way the pursuit dynamics website above does a fair job
> of describing the function of a good old Penberthy injector.
> Still available from the manufacturer.
> DV</HTML>
about h cars
Posted by: alhad (IP Logged)
Date: September 23, 2004 08:41AM
<HTML>i am very glade to know about the hydro cars .
if u have some information send me .</HTML>
if u have some information send me .</HTML>
Re: Electric cars not dead!
Posted by: austin (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2004 01:15PM
<HTML>yo peter u got a little dick but as for the that thing about the steam engine or watever in the cars and trucks or electric motors or watever the @!#$ keep up the good u little penis and dick sucken @!#$</HTML>
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