1 Steam Cars : Phorum
Attachments: Navette LaBelle Florida.jpg (277.6KB)
General Steam Car topics
Warren Engine
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: January 28, 2003 08:10PM
<HTML>I just received the December 1942 issue of Mechanix Illustrated and included in the articles was one about a steam powered torpedo boat. This vessel was claimed to reach more than 100 mph with an engine running thousands of rpms and opperate with a range of 8000 miles. A very interesting feature of this craft is the LaMont boiler built by an American aircraft manufacturer for use in steam aircraft. A boiler design on the drawing board was prepaired by combustion engineer J. T. McTarnahan, coworker and friend of LaMont. There are pictures of the aircraft LaMont boiler, shaped like a short coffin that opens like a clam shell and has a side mounted air inlet. The article makes mention of the Japanese Kawasaki-LaMont boiler used in their war ships of the day.
The other notable feature was the engine of which little information was given. The Warren engine, named after Woodruff Warren, was claimed to be 10 to 30% more efficient than a turbine but with less parts than a IC auto engine. 1000 psi steam was used and the testers were startled when the near juke box sized test engine propelled a 100 foot yacht at a speed of 10 knots with ease.
Has anyone heard of the Warren Engine ?</HTML>
The other notable feature was the engine of which little information was given. The Warren engine, named after Woodruff Warren, was claimed to be 10 to 30% more efficient than a turbine but with less parts than a IC auto engine. 1000 psi steam was used and the testers were startled when the near juke box sized test engine propelled a 100 foot yacht at a speed of 10 knots with ease.
Has anyone heard of the Warren Engine ?</HTML>
Re: Warren Engine
Posted by: Fergus Dunlop (IP Logged)
Date: January 28, 2003 08:36PM
<HTML>I haven't heard of the warren engine, I do know that the German navy used Lamont Boilers in their warships during the ww2, there is an article on the Lamont on the SCA web page.</HTML>
Re: Warren Engine
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: January 28, 2003 09:25PM
<HTML>Yes, from my research I have noted 8 LaMont powered test destroyers and a few other vessels as well as the battleships of the Scharnhorst class in the German navy. The Japanese had several ships also powered with LaMont boilers, the first of which was the Kuroshio-Maru with 3 Kawasaki-LaMont boilers of 17000Kg/hr output from 333 square meters of heating surface, excluding the air preheater. While I enjoy collecting this information, it is the very few American LaMont installations such as the aircraft boiler in the torpedo boat that keep me searching.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: Warren Engine
Posted by: Mark Stacey (IP Logged)
Date: January 29, 2003 12:04AM
<HTML>Hmm Sounds like a bit doubtfull. I've been chasing the maximum speed achieved and actually measured by a steam powered vessel and 43mph by the Arrow in the 1890's is claimed to be the fastest but even that claim is a bit suspect.
100mph sounds life a story that came from a bit of war time morale boosting.
Cheers
Mark Stacey</HTML>
100mph sounds life a story that came from a bit of war time morale boosting.
Cheers
Mark Stacey</HTML>
Re: Warren Engine
Posted by: Rolly Evans (IP Logged)
Date: January 29, 2003 09:22AM
<HTML>What is the name of the steam powered torpedo boat with the Lamont boiler. Do you know the vessel numbers.
Thanks Rolly</HTML>
Thanks Rolly</HTML>
Re Engine/ Arrow/Unadilla?
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: January 29, 2003 12:45PM
<HTML>eeeGadd ,,I thot the Arrow was all forgotten about,,,there really is hope for this site[Thanks again John],,,Now does anyone know who has UNADILLA [sp?] restored by D. Cameron Peck ,, Evansville Ill.,,Nr Chicago, about1950,,there was a article in Bulb Horn back when he was Pres' ,,,Launch engines were the logical choice for the really early cars so there really is a connection, early 1850--1890,,,,Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: Re Engine/ Arrow/Unadilla?
Posted by: Rolly Evans (IP Logged)
Date: January 29, 2003 02:10PM
<HTML>Colburn are you sure UNADILLA was restored. Is this the same navy gun boat.
[www.history.navy.mil]
She was Renamed Dang Wee, she was employed in merchant service until lost at Hong Kong in 1870
Rolly</HTML>
[www.history.navy.mil]
She was Renamed Dang Wee, she was employed in merchant service until lost at Hong Kong in 1870
Rolly</HTML>
Re: Warren Engine
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: January 29, 2003 02:29PM
<HTML>Mark,
ARROW did achieve 43 mph. If you can find the book "Steam Yachts" by Eric Hoffman, you will find her in there, also quite a few other very fast steam yachts. "Winchester (s)," "Vamoose" and a number of others.
This 100 mph destroyer sound like the usual rubbish Science and Mechanics and the other such cat box liners often published. Problem is that some steam car enthusiasts took their silly stories as fact, still do.
Jim</HTML>
ARROW did achieve 43 mph. If you can find the book "Steam Yachts" by Eric Hoffman, you will find her in there, also quite a few other very fast steam yachts. "Winchester (s)," "Vamoose" and a number of others.
This 100 mph destroyer sound like the usual rubbish Science and Mechanics and the other such cat box liners often published. Problem is that some steam car enthusiasts took their silly stories as fact, still do.
Jim</HTML>
Re: Warren Engine
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: January 29, 2003 05:26PM
<HTML>This is a pontoon boat that floats in 3 feet of water and draws only 19 inches at full throttle. The article was written from an interview with the designer F. M. Bellanca of aircraft design fame and the markings on the vessel are "TT 3" but may just be of the artists conception. The Warren engine was claimed to have been tested for several years aboard a closely guarded yacht before being selected for this craft. The drive is through conta-rotating propellers of 3 blades each and 10 feet in diameter.
There is a quote in the article from combustion engineer and friend of LaMont's "If commander LaMont were alive today he'd want to help win this war - the least we can do is help to give his invention a chance to win it".
Another LaMont test boat to prepair for this craft was the 65 mph Garber landing boat desiginated "10F170". That would be 2 that are faster than 43mph.
Just the picture of the LaMont aircraft boiler leads me to believe such a craft existed but actual performance, who knows. Fact or not, we can't stop searching for all the past steam developments.
Peter Heid</HTML>
There is a quote in the article from combustion engineer and friend of LaMont's "If commander LaMont were alive today he'd want to help win this war - the least we can do is help to give his invention a chance to win it".
Another LaMont test boat to prepair for this craft was the 65 mph Garber landing boat desiginated "10F170". That would be 2 that are faster than 43mph.
Just the picture of the LaMont aircraft boiler leads me to believe such a craft existed but actual performance, who knows. Fact or not, we can't stop searching for all the past steam developments.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: Warren Engine
Posted by: Karl Petersen (IP Logged)
Date: April 15, 2013 07:17PM
I have found the Mechanix Illustrated article from December 1942. I don't know where to find the interview with Frank M. Bellanca at American Aero-Marine What other hard information is available by which we can reconstruct the specifications and performance?
Re: Warren Engine
Posted by: Rolly (IP Logged)
Date: April 15, 2013 08:23PM
I wonder if it was The rotary steam turbine that Edward Christopher Warren, an associate of the renowned Niola Tesla, designed and installed in the Herreshoff yacht Navette, built for J. P. Morgan in 1901,
Paul Hammond, a good friend of the Herreshoffs, bought NAVETTE's steam engines with the idea of using them in a new boat. At the same time the yacht including the boiler was purchased by Edward Christopher Warren, inventor of the Warren Steam Engine. Mr. Warren, himself a distinguished marine engineer, used NAVETTE as a test vehicle for his own engines.
He and certain of his ten children lived aboard.
[www.herreshoffregistry.org]
Another bit of information,
Dear Editor:
Further to Red Marston's letter about Navette in NQ 19, the following is a bit of historical trivia. Edward C. Warren bought Navette sometime late in WWII to use as a demonstrator for a novel type of steam engine that he had invented; it was rotary configuration. He took out the beautiful Herreshoff up-and-downers and installed a pair of his rotaries. He was unsuccessful in selling the idea to the Navy and decided to take the vessel south, with his daughters as crew. At some point in all this, he found that the law required that he have a licensed steam engineer aboard. So one of the daughters (I forget which one) promptly did a bit of studying, took the exam, and became a licensed steam engineer! They made it to Florida, not without of a good deal of trouble with the machinery, and wound up at LaBelle where I believe a relative had some waterfront land. The yacht has been there ever since.
Rolly
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2013 08:41PM by Rolly.
Paul Hammond, a good friend of the Herreshoffs, bought NAVETTE's steam engines with the idea of using them in a new boat. At the same time the yacht including the boiler was purchased by Edward Christopher Warren, inventor of the Warren Steam Engine. Mr. Warren, himself a distinguished marine engineer, used NAVETTE as a test vehicle for his own engines.
He and certain of his ten children lived aboard.
[www.herreshoffregistry.org]
Another bit of information,
Dear Editor:
Further to Red Marston's letter about Navette in NQ 19, the following is a bit of historical trivia. Edward C. Warren bought Navette sometime late in WWII to use as a demonstrator for a novel type of steam engine that he had invented; it was rotary configuration. He took out the beautiful Herreshoff up-and-downers and installed a pair of his rotaries. He was unsuccessful in selling the idea to the Navy and decided to take the vessel south, with his daughters as crew. At some point in all this, he found that the law required that he have a licensed steam engineer aboard. So one of the daughters (I forget which one) promptly did a bit of studying, took the exam, and became a licensed steam engineer! They made it to Florida, not without of a good deal of trouble with the machinery, and wound up at LaBelle where I believe a relative had some waterfront land. The yacht has been there ever since.
Rolly
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2013 08:41PM by Rolly.
Re: Warren Engine
Posted by: Ben (IP Logged)
Date: April 15, 2013 11:48PM
I wonder if Paul Hammond was related to Jack Hammond,,with the 1650 imported castle just south of Gloucester,,,in Magnolia,,
He had to do with early radar and sonar,,Info from Fred Hartung of Marblehead,,
Fred was born in 1880 I think,,,Cheers,,Ben
He had to do with early radar and sonar,,Info from Fred Hartung of Marblehead,,
Fred was born in 1880 I think,,,Cheers,,Ben
Re: Warren Engine
Posted by: Rolly (IP Logged)
Date: April 16, 2013 01:12AM
Navette along side the canal bank Labella Florida.
Rolly
Rolly
Attachments: Navette LaBelle Florida.jpg (277.6KB)
Re: Warren Engine
Posted by: Rolly (IP Logged)
Date: April 17, 2013 02:05PM
Edward Christopher Warren rotary engine
I did a pattern search.
Patent number: 680510
Filing date: Jan 31, 1900
Issue date: Aug 13, 1901
Patent number: 761799
Filing date: Sep 25, 1902
Issue date: Jun 7, 1904
Rolly
[www.google.com]
[www.google.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2013 02:12PM by Rolly.
I did a pattern search.
Patent number: 680510
Filing date: Jan 31, 1900
Issue date: Aug 13, 1901
Patent number: 761799
Filing date: Sep 25, 1902
Issue date: Jun 7, 1904
Rolly
[www.google.com]
[www.google.com]
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2013 02:12PM by Rolly.
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