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General Steam Car topics
Delling steam bus
Posted by: Martin Werbeck (IP Logged)
Date: January 29, 2003 10:55AM
<HTML>The story of the drowned steam bus.
In 1932 the (one and only ?) Delling steam bus was send to the Büssing company in Northern Germany for trial runs. The 27-seater had a semi-uniflow 3-cyl engine and a firetube-boiler , not unlike Stanley`s , but nearly horizontal.
The Büssing staff was first impressed by its silent running and quick acceleration, but than experienced mechanical difficulties and found it to expensive to run.
By that time Delling was in financical difficulties and could not afford the money to ship it back to USA. On the other hand , Büssings refused to buy it.
As it could neither stay in nor leave Germany , it is said they simply dropped it into the sea !
Has anyone heard that unbelievable story and can tell me wether it is true ?
It seems Delling was one of the more successful steam car makers and survived until 1934.
Are there any Delling steam cars still around ?
Regards, Martin</HTML>
In 1932 the (one and only ?) Delling steam bus was send to the Büssing company in Northern Germany for trial runs. The 27-seater had a semi-uniflow 3-cyl engine and a firetube-boiler , not unlike Stanley`s , but nearly horizontal.
The Büssing staff was first impressed by its silent running and quick acceleration, but than experienced mechanical difficulties and found it to expensive to run.
By that time Delling was in financical difficulties and could not afford the money to ship it back to USA. On the other hand , Büssings refused to buy it.
As it could neither stay in nor leave Germany , it is said they simply dropped it into the sea !
Has anyone heard that unbelievable story and can tell me wether it is true ?
It seems Delling was one of the more successful steam car makers and survived until 1934.
Are there any Delling steam cars still around ?
Regards, Martin</HTML>
Re: Delling steam bus
Posted by: George Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: January 29, 2003 11:47AM
<HTML>Martin,
Eric Delling(and also his brother) was an exceptional engineer and also designed the Brooks steam bus--in Canada? He was called in to consult on the Stanley during its last few dying years and invlolved with the SV that last year.
There is no known existing example of his steam car, the last few had a three cylinder engine in front and appeared to be a very good car that developed 62HP and would cruise at 60mph.
There was a great story in an old SACA publication of a few steam buffs that learned that Eric Delling was still working as an engineer at Grumman? aircraft on Long Island, I believe he was in his 70's at the time of this article. There had been an article about him in the company publication about his life endeavours but it seemed impossible to contact him. The two steam buffs had a police officer/friend do a search and they found he lived in a back apartment in his daughters house. It is a wonderful story. They went there and knocked on the door and his daughter answered---they were allowed to see Eric and he opened up a bit on steam, said he had a full set of plans ready to go for a new car!! I am going from memory so may be in error on a few things. He was considered to be an extremely talented engineer.
Best, George</HTML>
Eric Delling(and also his brother) was an exceptional engineer and also designed the Brooks steam bus--in Canada? He was called in to consult on the Stanley during its last few dying years and invlolved with the SV that last year.
There is no known existing example of his steam car, the last few had a three cylinder engine in front and appeared to be a very good car that developed 62HP and would cruise at 60mph.
There was a great story in an old SACA publication of a few steam buffs that learned that Eric Delling was still working as an engineer at Grumman? aircraft on Long Island, I believe he was in his 70's at the time of this article. There had been an article about him in the company publication about his life endeavours but it seemed impossible to contact him. The two steam buffs had a police officer/friend do a search and they found he lived in a back apartment in his daughters house. It is a wonderful story. They went there and knocked on the door and his daughter answered---they were allowed to see Eric and he opened up a bit on steam, said he had a full set of plans ready to go for a new car!! I am going from memory so may be in error on a few things. He was considered to be an extremely talented engineer.
Best, George</HTML>
Re: Delling steam bus
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: January 29, 2003 02:47PM
<HTML>Martin,
Eric Delling was quite a steam car designer. He designed the SV Stanley, which the late Frank Duveneck said was the absolute worst steam car he ever sold. Undersized 20" boiler with a one venturi burner and a bad engine. He was the last Stanley dealer in San Francisco. Seems the cast aluminum crankcases broke in about a month of use. Frank said that when that happened, he told the customers (2) that their spare engine was ready at the agency and the cost was only for the labor to put it in. He bought 740 engines and jacked up the price of the SV's to cover it, knowing it would soon break.
His Delling car was a really good one. A late friend of mine said when he bought a 740 Stanley from a crummy race car garage in Los Angeles back in 1937, there was a Delling sedan parked next to it. Confirmed by Bunny Phillips, the Bugatti man in L.A. who knew the guy, because he had several Miller race cars. He also told me about a strange steam car with a vertical three cylinder engine and boiler under the hood; but he didn't know what it was. The garage was in the Watts section of L.A. a few blocks from the Southern Pacific train depot.
Delling also designed the flat eight ALMA engine.
He was the Chief Engineer at the revived Stanley Co. in the late 20's, and they tried to do a bus; but according to my sources, never finished it and that company went broke. Then it was again revivied with new management and they hired Abner Doble to do a bus system. The powerplant was done; but that is as far as it went. Abner bailed out on them.
Jim</HTML>
Eric Delling was quite a steam car designer. He designed the SV Stanley, which the late Frank Duveneck said was the absolute worst steam car he ever sold. Undersized 20" boiler with a one venturi burner and a bad engine. He was the last Stanley dealer in San Francisco. Seems the cast aluminum crankcases broke in about a month of use. Frank said that when that happened, he told the customers (2) that their spare engine was ready at the agency and the cost was only for the labor to put it in. He bought 740 engines and jacked up the price of the SV's to cover it, knowing it would soon break.
His Delling car was a really good one. A late friend of mine said when he bought a 740 Stanley from a crummy race car garage in Los Angeles back in 1937, there was a Delling sedan parked next to it. Confirmed by Bunny Phillips, the Bugatti man in L.A. who knew the guy, because he had several Miller race cars. He also told me about a strange steam car with a vertical three cylinder engine and boiler under the hood; but he didn't know what it was. The garage was in the Watts section of L.A. a few blocks from the Southern Pacific train depot.
Delling also designed the flat eight ALMA engine.
He was the Chief Engineer at the revived Stanley Co. in the late 20's, and they tried to do a bus; but according to my sources, never finished it and that company went broke. Then it was again revivied with new management and they hired Abner Doble to do a bus system. The powerplant was done; but that is as far as it went. Abner bailed out on them.
Jim</HTML>
Re: Delling steam bus
Posted by: Martin Werbeck (IP Logged)
Date: January 30, 2003 01:41PM
<HTML>George,
Thanks for your reply. There seem to be very few steamcars of the 1920`s around,
apart from Stanley`s and Doble`s. I`ve seen an American steamer with a Derr watertube boiler in a museum in England, and another one in the photo album.
There seem to be three or four Brooks and a Bryan car. Did the Bryan also have a water tube boiler ? I wonder how this cars would compare to a Stanley.
Martin</HTML>
Thanks for your reply. There seem to be very few steamcars of the 1920`s around,
apart from Stanley`s and Doble`s. I`ve seen an American steamer with a Derr watertube boiler in a museum in England, and another one in the photo album.
There seem to be three or four Brooks and a Bryan car. Did the Bryan also have a water tube boiler ? I wonder how this cars would compare to a Stanley.
Martin</HTML>
Re: Delling steam bus
Posted by: Martin Werbeck (IP Logged)
Date: January 30, 2003 01:58PM
<HTML>Dear Jim,
Did the SV Stanley have the same powerplant as the Brooks ? I had a ride in one in England a couple of years ago and found it very comfortable and quiet but more sluggish than Stanleys. Steam pressure was rarely higher than 400 psi.
The Delling should have a high starting torque with three double acting cylinders and should start with less than 50 % cut-off , am I right ? The bus had an automatic variable cut-off, but , according to Floyd Clymers reprints, the cars were only regulated with the throttle.
Is the Doble E engine actually fitted with a reciever charging valve or simpling valve to assist starting ?
I wonder wether it would be able to start on a 20 % gradient on a single HP cylinder with the other one at the dead point.
Henschel`s Doble car was started with 80 % cut-off, but worked at 100 atm., double the pressure of the earlier Dobles. The Henschel/Doble trucks could climb a 25 % gradient but were relatively low geared for about 50 km/h / 30 mph.
Martin</HTML>
Did the SV Stanley have the same powerplant as the Brooks ? I had a ride in one in England a couple of years ago and found it very comfortable and quiet but more sluggish than Stanleys. Steam pressure was rarely higher than 400 psi.
The Delling should have a high starting torque with three double acting cylinders and should start with less than 50 % cut-off , am I right ? The bus had an automatic variable cut-off, but , according to Floyd Clymers reprints, the cars were only regulated with the throttle.
Is the Doble E engine actually fitted with a reciever charging valve or simpling valve to assist starting ?
I wonder wether it would be able to start on a 20 % gradient on a single HP cylinder with the other one at the dead point.
Henschel`s Doble car was started with 80 % cut-off, but worked at 100 atm., double the pressure of the earlier Dobles. The Henschel/Doble trucks could climb a 25 % gradient but were relatively low geared for about 50 km/h / 30 mph.
Martin</HTML>
Re: Delling steam bus
Posted by: Jeff Theobald (IP Logged)
Date: January 30, 2003 05:13PM
<HTML>Hi Martin,
I remember you having a ride in my car on the Norfolk tour, that was a few years ago.
The engine in the Brooks although built to the same layout as the Stanley’s, was much stronger, with proper crosshead slides and large main bearings.
It is in an aluminium box but that is only used to keep the oil in and water out being fitted with packing glands on piston and valve rods, it also holds some accessories, the torque returns are through four large rods that run right through the engine, much the same as in the Stanley.
It is said that Oland Brooks used Stanley’s disguised with Brooks painted on disc wheels and a few other minor changes, they were used to help with selling shares when the company was being set up, I have tracked down six complete Brooks cars of which only two are in use, and one or two rolling chassis, hope this bit of info helps, Jeff.</HTML>
I remember you having a ride in my car on the Norfolk tour, that was a few years ago.
The engine in the Brooks although built to the same layout as the Stanley’s, was much stronger, with proper crosshead slides and large main bearings.
It is in an aluminium box but that is only used to keep the oil in and water out being fitted with packing glands on piston and valve rods, it also holds some accessories, the torque returns are through four large rods that run right through the engine, much the same as in the Stanley.
It is said that Oland Brooks used Stanley’s disguised with Brooks painted on disc wheels and a few other minor changes, they were used to help with selling shares when the company was being set up, I have tracked down six complete Brooks cars of which only two are in use, and one or two rolling chassis, hope this bit of info helps, Jeff.</HTML>
Re: Delling steam bus
Posted by: Pat Farrell (IP Logged)
Date: January 31, 2003 01:49PM
<HTML>The sole surviving Bryan is owned by Al Reynolds and unfortunately presently has a Stanley 20 H.P. engine in it. The sole surviving Baker is owned by Jay Leno and unfortunately also presently has a Stanley 20 H.P. engine in it. Unfortunate in that we will never know how well the original engines performed.</HTML>
Re: Delling steam bus
Posted by: Martin Werbeck (IP Logged)
Date: January 31, 2003 01:57PM
<HTML>Hello Jeff,
Yes , that was at the Norfolk tour. That was a great tour, I `m still looking at the videos from time to time.
I saw a picture from a Brooks in a book from the 1970`s , it was then part of the Harrah`s Collection, together with Doble`s personal E 19 (?) car. It looked exactly like your`s ,is this the one you have now, or still another one ?
A reprint from Floyd Clymer shows a Brooks with an exhaust turbine to drive the condenser fan. Are any of the existing Brooks fitted with a turbine ? I remember yours has none.
I have not recieved the British Steam Car Magazin for quiet a while , so my info`s are not up to date. Is your Keen streamliner working now ? This is a really interesting car.
Regards, Martin</HTML>
Yes , that was at the Norfolk tour. That was a great tour, I `m still looking at the videos from time to time.
I saw a picture from a Brooks in a book from the 1970`s , it was then part of the Harrah`s Collection, together with Doble`s personal E 19 (?) car. It looked exactly like your`s ,is this the one you have now, or still another one ?
A reprint from Floyd Clymer shows a Brooks with an exhaust turbine to drive the condenser fan. Are any of the existing Brooks fitted with a turbine ? I remember yours has none.
I have not recieved the British Steam Car Magazin for quiet a while , so my info`s are not up to date. Is your Keen streamliner working now ? This is a really interesting car.
Regards, Martin</HTML>
Re: Delling steam bus
Posted by: Jeff Theobald (IP Logged)
Date: February 01, 2003 08:17AM
<HTML>Hi Martin,
The car in Harrah's collection is still there, and is chassis number 24032, looks as if it has been overstamped, I was able to give the car a good look over in 1998.
My car was found by a Mr John Jensen in the late 50's, I have some lovely old black and white pictures of it in a barn in a terrible state with other stable mates which look like Alburns etc, and other pictures of the car being transported to his home.
John Jensen restored it to running order and ran the car until the late 60's when it came to the UK and was bought by Lord McAlpine, his team of steam men only used the car once or twice, and in the early 80's he sold the car on to a London car dealer, luckily they knew nothing about steam cars, but did know me, calling me in to help, for me it was love at first site, I now have three, my best car 26102 the car you rode in, an open tourer number 26141 which is complete with a two seater Murphy body, and is another car I have to restore, and a complete rolling chassis number 26060.
Although the exhaust turbine was in the original drawings, as far as I know it was only included in the cars fitted with the experimental mono tube boiler.
And to my great shame I got myself diverted onto other projects before finishing the Keen, but it is almost completed with a new boiler waiting to be fitted, as soon as I have finished the Hart, I will be back on the Keen.
Regards, Jeff.</HTML>
The car in Harrah's collection is still there, and is chassis number 24032, looks as if it has been overstamped, I was able to give the car a good look over in 1998.
My car was found by a Mr John Jensen in the late 50's, I have some lovely old black and white pictures of it in a barn in a terrible state with other stable mates which look like Alburns etc, and other pictures of the car being transported to his home.
John Jensen restored it to running order and ran the car until the late 60's when it came to the UK and was bought by Lord McAlpine, his team of steam men only used the car once or twice, and in the early 80's he sold the car on to a London car dealer, luckily they knew nothing about steam cars, but did know me, calling me in to help, for me it was love at first site, I now have three, my best car 26102 the car you rode in, an open tourer number 26141 which is complete with a two seater Murphy body, and is another car I have to restore, and a complete rolling chassis number 26060.
Although the exhaust turbine was in the original drawings, as far as I know it was only included in the cars fitted with the experimental mono tube boiler.
And to my great shame I got myself diverted onto other projects before finishing the Keen, but it is almost completed with a new boiler waiting to be fitted, as soon as I have finished the Hart, I will be back on the Keen.
Regards, Jeff.</HTML>
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