1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
steam automatic
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: February 03, 2003 03:21AM
<HTML>Does anyone have any advice on getting a Stanley steam automatic adjusted properly? I have had mine off 2 or 3 times now trying to get things right. I have it on the bench with a gauge and hydralic ram attatched. I can get it to shut off at 500 lbs, no problem, but, it starts the shut off process at 350 or so which makes it hard to maintain a good head of steam on the road. I have polished the shaft, made sure it was straight, repacked it with teflon, etc, but I can not seem to get it to shut off in a closer range of pressures. I have also played with spring tensions without much luck. Also any advice on repacking the piston and valves on the engine, started getting some leakage aroud them yesterday. Thanks, Eric</HTML>
Re: steam automatic
Posted by: Rolly Evans (IP Logged)
Date: February 04, 2003 09:41AM
<HTML>Eric have you checked the volume of fuel that will pass through the valve when the diaphragm has 400 PSI. on it.
Rolly</HTML>
Rolly</HTML>
Re: steam automatic
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: February 04, 2003 03:57PM
<HTML>Hi Rolly,
I really do not have anyway to definativly check how much volume is coming through at 400lbs. I have just been hooking up a pipe through the valve and blowing into it and seeing when it starts to get restricted. Kind of crude I guess. The last time I adjusted it I probably had it too restricted all through the range because it took forever to raise steam and when I opened the main valve up full it did not sound much different from when it was just cracked open. I have got it back together again after opening it up a bit more and cleaning up the ball seat some so will see if that helps. I had also put a couple of copper wires in the pipe from the automatic to the burner to cut down on some of the volume of fuel in the line beyond the valve and I may try taking one of those out as well if this does not work. I guess it would probably be wise to only play with one variable at a time. Anyway, last time I drove it I forgot to open up the hand bypass valve so, it was not steaming well because of all the water in the boiler and also that is probably why I now have some leaky valve and piston rod packing. After repacking how tight do you turn the packing nuts?
I also think I have the water level gauge figured out after playing with it some, seems it reads on the high side when the automatic is working, so the water level in the boiler is maintianed at a level that always reads high on the gauge. My question is at what level on the boiler should the water level be maintained. If the level is correct I guess I could move the sensor up a tad so it reads "Normal" at the current level, or, if it is too high I could move the automatic down a tad to drop the water level. Probably easier to drop the automatic but I don't want to drop the water level too low. My guess is that there is not too much difference between Low and High on the gauge, but of this I am not sure. By the way the car has a American steam car gauge and sensor on it. Thanks, Eric</HTML>
I really do not have anyway to definativly check how much volume is coming through at 400lbs. I have just been hooking up a pipe through the valve and blowing into it and seeing when it starts to get restricted. Kind of crude I guess. The last time I adjusted it I probably had it too restricted all through the range because it took forever to raise steam and when I opened the main valve up full it did not sound much different from when it was just cracked open. I have got it back together again after opening it up a bit more and cleaning up the ball seat some so will see if that helps. I had also put a couple of copper wires in the pipe from the automatic to the burner to cut down on some of the volume of fuel in the line beyond the valve and I may try taking one of those out as well if this does not work. I guess it would probably be wise to only play with one variable at a time. Anyway, last time I drove it I forgot to open up the hand bypass valve so, it was not steaming well because of all the water in the boiler and also that is probably why I now have some leaky valve and piston rod packing. After repacking how tight do you turn the packing nuts?
I also think I have the water level gauge figured out after playing with it some, seems it reads on the high side when the automatic is working, so the water level in the boiler is maintianed at a level that always reads high on the gauge. My question is at what level on the boiler should the water level be maintained. If the level is correct I guess I could move the sensor up a tad so it reads "Normal" at the current level, or, if it is too high I could move the automatic down a tad to drop the water level. Probably easier to drop the automatic but I don't want to drop the water level too low. My guess is that there is not too much difference between Low and High on the gauge, but of this I am not sure. By the way the car has a American steam car gauge and sensor on it. Thanks, Eric</HTML>
Re: steam automatic
Posted by: Rolly Evans (IP Logged)
Date: February 04, 2003 05:00PM
<HTML>Eric
You can pump the fuel pressure up to normal operation pressure. Put 400 Lb from your hydraulic test set on the diaphragm and pipe the fuel into a can. Measure it for 15 sec and calculate your available burn rate.
As for water height in the boiler, I like to carrie mine on the high side.
Fill the boiler up till the water comes out of the left front blowdown. Connect the bottom of the boiler to the automatic water level and leave the other end disconnected. If water comes out the automatic when it starts to come out the blow down your at the low level. You can go up from there.
Rolly</HTML>
You can pump the fuel pressure up to normal operation pressure. Put 400 Lb from your hydraulic test set on the diaphragm and pipe the fuel into a can. Measure it for 15 sec and calculate your available burn rate.
As for water height in the boiler, I like to carrie mine on the high side.
Fill the boiler up till the water comes out of the left front blowdown. Connect the bottom of the boiler to the automatic water level and leave the other end disconnected. If water comes out the automatic when it starts to come out the blow down your at the low level. You can go up from there.
Rolly</HTML>
Re: steam automatic
Posted by: Pat Farrell (IP Logged)
Date: February 05, 2003 03:54AM
<HTML>Tighten your stuffing boxes only enough to prevent leakage but not enough to create an unecessary drag. Tightening them too tight only reams the packing out faster. Before I hard chromed my piston rods, I had to tighten my stuffing boxes every 30 miles. After having had the piston rods hard chromed, I now only tighten the stuffing boxes about once every 500 miles. Amazing!</HTML>
Re: steam automatic
Posted by: David K Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: February 05, 2003 01:36PM
<HTML>The Stanley manual says to set the steam automatic by screwing in the valve assembly until the valve is closed. with no pressure, then crew it out 3/4 of a turn and set up the lock nut.
The normal water level in a Stanley boiler is about 6 inches from the top. If you leave less steam space, you may get wet steam.</HTML>
The normal water level in a Stanley boiler is about 6 inches from the top. If you leave less steam space, you may get wet steam.</HTML>
Re: steam automatic
Posted by: Christopher W. Roberts (IP Logged)
Date: February 14, 2003 03:01AM
<HTML> The way I set my steam automatic is to build a head of steam, up to when it shutts off. If it is shutting off too soon, tighten the adjusting nut. This will put more pressure on the spring and it will take more steam to shut it off. Once it is closeing between 450-500...you are done.</HTML>
Re: steam automatic
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2003 01:22AM
<HTML>Thanks for all the advice. I have readjusted the automatic to get a good flow all the way up to about the shut off pressure at 500 lbs.. I steamed it up last weekend and took a drive. It was pretty sluggish for a while, but, sence I had some free time and it was kind of warm out I decided to take it for a bit of a longer drive. Up until this time I have just kind of putted around town. After driving for about 5 or 6 miles everything just seemed to start working better than it ever had, maybe I just hadn't driven it long enough to really get things warmed up before. When I first started it would only maintain about 20-25 mph, when I was done it was maintaining at least 35 or 40; I didn't want to go much faster! The water level automatic was working fine and I think I finally have the water level gauge figured out, it just always reads between the high and normal. Now I have repacked the piston valves after finding the article in the Stanley Museun newsletter and will try steaming it up again soon to get it all adjusted right. I will also make sure I lube everything up well before I take it out again. Then all that is left, at least for the moment, is plumbing in the whistle, insulating things, and getting the water tank gauge and hooking up the kidney gauge. Thanks again, Eric</HTML>
Re: steam automatic
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2003 07:47PM
<HTML>No feedwater heater I think,,,,Pumping cold water for first few miles will really hurt performence til things get warmed up,,,,,youre on the trail,,,Ben</HTML>
Re: steam automatic
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2003 03:17PM
<HTML>Yes, no feed water heater, did one come on the 1918's? Might try firing up today to see how the packing went, kind of sunny, no snow here but still not exactly touring weather. Thanks, Eric</HTML>
Re: steam automatic
Posted by: David K Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2003 10:54PM
<HTML>Feed water heaters were fitted to Stanleys from 1913 'til 1922. They were dropped at that point to save costs and reduce risks of freezing in cold weather. Even with the heater, my '22 Stanley is rather slugish for first 5-6 miles.</HTML>
Re: steam automatic
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: February 19, 2003 02:08AM
<HTML>Well my 1918 does not have the feed water heater anymore, maybe something to add back eventually. I fired it up today and ran it on the jack a while to let the packing seat some, looks pretty good so far. Then I took it out and washed it and went to drive it a bit to dry it off, got about 3 or 4 blocks when there was a load pop and hiss, so, I slowly drove back, it only hissed with the throttle open. I took up the floor board and the oil line had snapped right at its junction with the steam line. Hope driving those couple of blocks did not hurt the valves any. The line is copper with a bunch of coils, must have just gotten old and stiff I guess. I was kind of fearing a break in the main line.</HTML>
Re: steam automatic
Posted by: Pat Farrell (IP Logged)
Date: February 19, 2003 04:50AM
<HTML>Replace the copper oil line with a new steel brake line from the auto parts store. It will be much more reliable</HTML>
Re: steam- oil -oiler- etc
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: February 19, 2003 12:33PM
<HTML>The steel tube is a verry good idea,,,copper work hardens all too quickley,,,this SHOULD be a required mod,,,ALSO if you think the brass fitting at the steamline end is cloged,,look again,,,its got a tiny check valve in it,,,but the outside looks almost ,,,,almost,,the same,,,, xxxxxx remember,,use care ,,, dont hook up too soon,,the engine has compression in short cutoff,,,if youre pulling,the steam will blow the water into the condenser,,,BUT,,,BUT on closed trottle ,,,,water in the pipe to the condenser can flow back to the engine by gravity,,an' get into the cylenders,,,,and w/compression,,,bend a crank or blow a head off,,,,I am not trying to scare you ,,the car is fun,,,Just one more detail to be aware of,,,,,,XXXXXXwhere are you,,,you musta' missed the storm,,Cheers Ben in Maine ooops,,PS what oiler do you have,,,,Madison-Kipp will handle the heavy oil,,,the earlier pumps will have trouble w/the heayiest oils,,,,in coldweather,,,,Dave,,,a few words here,for the audience,,,CB</HTML>
Re: steam- oil -oiler- etc
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: February 19, 2003 03:24PM
<HTML>I am in Oregon, seems we have missed most of the storms this year and face another drought, good thing I have a condenser. I will put a steel line on first thing. Also, there is kind of a short, but steep climb out of my garage, should I make some kind of special preperations for climbing it while things are still relatively cold. I have been trying to warm it up some on the jack before I take it out. Also, once I leave the garage there is a steep but short climb out of the parking lot. I try to make a couple of laps around the lot before climbing out, but, I always seem to get a load clunk from somewhere below about 1/2 way up the climb. I try to make sure I am not in hook up while doing it although, I must admit that sometimes I forget all about it and that I had forgotten to get out of hook-up when I had started up just before the oil line broke. Need to tape a reminder on the windscreen! Thanks, Eric</HTML>
Re: steam- oil -oiler- etc
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: February 19, 2003 05:27PM
<HTML>Hi Eric,, Going up hill cold will not be a problem I think,,,,The rush of steam to the condenser will carry out all the water,,,,,,It's goin' down hill thats the problem,,or at least when throttle is not passing enough steam to keep that pipe clear,,,,Its not a big problem,,but we have a few bent cranks over here to show as evidence,,,Because of hi rate of condensing when cold ,progress will be slow when cold,,not to worry long cutoff an'let er go,, the extra steam passing will help heat er up ,,If ya want to impress the neighbors,,take the condenser cap off ,,, re / engine ,,there will probably be enough water in there that it dont need oil,,,its when it gets hot ya need the oil,,,</HTML>
Re: steam- cold start
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: February 19, 2003 05:35PM
<HTML>I ment to title it cold start /an it posted it instead,,,ooops / weather improved,,,its over 32f first in a month or 2,,,theres hope afterall,,,Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: steam- cold start
Posted by: David K Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: February 20, 2003 09:36PM
<HTML>More on lube failures: be sure the oil check works as it should. If it won't seat, steam backs into the oil line and might blow all the oil back to the pump. Also make sure it opens when it should AND there is a clear path into the steam pipe. I have had an oil quill clog up so no oil was going into the steam although the blinker was working! Some cars were fitted with Detroit lubricators instead of Madison-Kipp. I had one in my car for more than a decade, no problems until I tried driving in cold weather. Then it totally refused to pump! Anyone in the South want a Detroit? I now use a Madison-Kipp.
If your car has a Madison-Kipp and you have a steep hill soon after you get steam up, you might give the engine some extra oil by giving the crank on the left end of the pump a few turns while steaming up.</HTML>
If your car has a Madison-Kipp and you have a steep hill soon after you get steam up, you might give the engine some extra oil by giving the crank on the left end of the pump a few turns while steaming up.</HTML>
Re: steam- cold start
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: February 21, 2003 03:32PM
<HTML>Yes, the car has a Madison-Kipp which seems to work fine. It has the later ON/Off gauge as well. The only check I could find in the line was a small inline check near the pump itself, my brother and I cleaned that out early on when we were not getting anything to register on the gauge, that fixed that problem. I used the hand crank to make sure oil was flowing through the line after I replaced it, took a lot of cranking to fill the new line. I also got a piece of 1/8 tube for my pilot line, I am hoping that the smaller tube will cut down on some of the pulsing I get with the pilot (thanks for the suggestion Pat). Thanks Eric</HTML>
Re:pilot twich
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: February 21, 2003 06:07PM
<HTML>If the pilot needle twiches,,,,ya know its lit,,,,,Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: oil check
Posted by: David K Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: February 22, 2003 11:12AM
<HTML>The oil check valve should be close to the fitting where oil enters the steam line. Mine is on the boiler side of the dash board. The oil pressure (Off-On) gauge should be connected between the pump and the oil check.</HTML>
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.