1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
Empire steam car
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2003 02:20AM
<HTML>Hi,
I was just spending a rainy afternoon flipping through my back issues of The Steam Automobile when, in the Summer 1963 (Vol 5 No 4) issue I saw that there in the report for the Worthington Ohio meet was a picture of a Empire Steam car, the caption reads "The radiator (beg pardon, condenser) emblem on this car says "Empire". It is the only one ever built. Made by the Gruban (cruban?) Machine and Steel Corp. of New York, and designed by Carl Uebelmesser as an experimental car, it has many unusual features, most interesting of which is its three-cylinder compound engine. How this works has many people puzzled, but it really does, for the engine was kept turning over at the meet with a portable steam generator. The car is now owned by Mrs. Forest Dietrick, who wishes to sell it."
So, my question is does anyone know what happened to this car? It would be kind of cool to find out more about it. Thanks, Eric</HTML>
I was just spending a rainy afternoon flipping through my back issues of The Steam Automobile when, in the Summer 1963 (Vol 5 No 4) issue I saw that there in the report for the Worthington Ohio meet was a picture of a Empire Steam car, the caption reads "The radiator (beg pardon, condenser) emblem on this car says "Empire". It is the only one ever built. Made by the Gruban (cruban?) Machine and Steel Corp. of New York, and designed by Carl Uebelmesser as an experimental car, it has many unusual features, most interesting of which is its three-cylinder compound engine. How this works has many people puzzled, but it really does, for the engine was kept turning over at the meet with a portable steam generator. The car is now owned by Mrs. Forest Dietrick, who wishes to sell it."
So, my question is does anyone know what happened to this car? It would be kind of cool to find out more about it. Thanks, Eric</HTML>
Re: Empire steam car
Posted by: Pat Farrell (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2003 04:41AM
<HTML>From the "Standard Catalog of American Cars": Empire Steam-New York, N.Y.-1927-The Criban Machine and Steel corporation of New York was operated by the Banzhaf brothers-Albert H.T. and E.J.-and located in downtown Manhatten near the Financial District. Around 1927 a steam car carrying the name Empire was designed for the firm by Carl Ubelmesser and was built probably for experimental or prototype purposes. Part of the car and it's chassis remain in exsistence. It was the only automobile believed built at Cruban.</HTML>
Re: Empire steam car
Posted by: Pat Farrell (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2003 04:44AM
<HTML>Typo error... Spelled correctly, it is CRUBAN. Sorry.</HTML>
Re: Empire steam car
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2003 06:30AM
<HTML>My info is that the name CRUBAN was derived from Charles R UeBelmesser/stANley. The name "Charles Uebelmesser" appears in company literature and may have been an anglicized name of the type common in the US around World War One (when "frankfurters" became "hot dogs" and "hamburgers" briefly became "salsbury steak" due to wartime anti-German hysteria). Most of the company's business was the manufacture and marketing of a number of excellent aftermarket improvements for Stanley cars. Two of my favorite CRUBAN ideas are their self-centering burner-jet poker and a throttle which instantly vents the pressure from steam chest and steam line when the throttle is closed. The Empire car project seems to have incorporated all their aftermarket Stanley equipment, and then some.
Peter</HTML>
Peter</HTML>
Re: Empire steam car
Posted by: Roland Evans (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2003 12:03PM
<HTML>Eric
I would like to know more about the three-cylinder compound Carl Uebelmesser built. I have read about there use in Torpedo boats and have only found about five in print. I have designed my own back in 1993-4 and have completed all drawings for a marine engine. All of the ones I have read about used 180- degrees on the journals for the two low-pressure cylinders at 90 D to the high. My engine is balanced with the journals at 120 degrees. The patterns for the cylinder block were beyond my pocket book at the time as I was building Tryall my 35-foot steamboat. I would still like to build the engine but in a smaller scale. No one ever told me the longer you keep steel engines the heaver they get. Some I have had for thirty years and can’t pick up any more. Molecules must get denser.
[ourworld.cs.com]
Rolly</HTML>
I would like to know more about the three-cylinder compound Carl Uebelmesser built. I have read about there use in Torpedo boats and have only found about five in print. I have designed my own back in 1993-4 and have completed all drawings for a marine engine. All of the ones I have read about used 180- degrees on the journals for the two low-pressure cylinders at 90 D to the high. My engine is balanced with the journals at 120 degrees. The patterns for the cylinder block were beyond my pocket book at the time as I was building Tryall my 35-foot steamboat. I would still like to build the engine but in a smaller scale. No one ever told me the longer you keep steel engines the heaver they get. Some I have had for thirty years and can’t pick up any more. Molecules must get denser.
[ourworld.cs.com]
Rolly</HTML>
Re: Empire steam car
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2003 01:34PM
<HTML>Rolly,
Probably the same idea that Bill Brobeck used for his steam bus engine.
A 6V-71 G.M. Diesel crankshaft, and the engine started as a three cylinder simple, then it could be switched to a compound with the center cylinder as the HP and the two outside cylinders together as the LP.
He used the V-6 version of the engine with two connecting rods on each crank journal going to one crossshead, as one rod would not take the starting torque. The crankshaft was a 120° layout. Not perfect for compounding; but as the steam bus program was only a one shot deal, no one noticed.
JC</HTML>
Probably the same idea that Bill Brobeck used for his steam bus engine.
A 6V-71 G.M. Diesel crankshaft, and the engine started as a three cylinder simple, then it could be switched to a compound with the center cylinder as the HP and the two outside cylinders together as the LP.
He used the V-6 version of the engine with two connecting rods on each crank journal going to one crossshead, as one rod would not take the starting torque. The crankshaft was a 120° layout. Not perfect for compounding; but as the steam bus program was only a one shot deal, no one noticed.
JC</HTML>
Re: Empire steam car
Posted by: Roland Evans (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2003 03:04PM
<HTML>Jim
Yes the same size bores limit the expansion ratios for a compound. To get the require expansion I went to larger bores on the two lows, also increased the lead angle on valve opening and cut off at 78%.
If I were to use an IC block single acting I would sleeve the high down in diameter till I had at list six expansions for the combined lows.
It would be interesting to see drawings of the Uebelmesser engine.
Rolly</HTML>
Yes the same size bores limit the expansion ratios for a compound. To get the require expansion I went to larger bores on the two lows, also increased the lead angle on valve opening and cut off at 78%.
If I were to use an IC block single acting I would sleeve the high down in diameter till I had at list six expansions for the combined lows.
It would be interesting to see drawings of the Uebelmesser engine.
Rolly</HTML>
Re: Empire car/Shipman
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2003 08:00PM
<HTML>Shipman made a self contained,,fulley automatic portable steam plant,,,half the size of a kitchen stove,,,also had that JET POKER,,,,,1885 1895,,several sizes etc,,, also, Press reg similar to Stanley,,,,,Hmmmm Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: Empire steam car
Posted by: Jim Merrick (IP Logged)
Date: February 18, 2003 12:47PM
<HTML>CRUBAN initially started as the CRU Patents Corporation of NY, with "CRU" apparently standing for the initials of Charles R. Uebelmesser. Uebelmesser and his associate, William Wenderhold, assigned to this company 21 patents dealing with film projection equipment (projectors, lamps, etc.) between 1920-1922. Sometime after 1922 they joined forces with Edwin & Alfred Banzhaf - the "BAN" in CRUBAN probably comes from Banzhaf - and began producing steam car components. The Banzhaf brothers and Wenderhold were all of German descent, but were US-born citizens. Uebelmesser was a German national, and thus even though he appears to be the company's chief engineer, many of the earlier firm's patents were issued to Wenderhold, who was a US citizen. During the war, the intellectual property of Germans (and other Axis nationals) could be confiscated under the Alien Property Act; hence Uebelmesser probably adopted a low-profile during the war years. Uebelmesser & Wenderhold received 15 steam-related patents between 1925-1932. Uebelmesser and both of the Banzhaf brothers died between 1931-1932, which apparently lead to the demise of the company. CRUBAN apparently had high hopes and expectations for its Empire Steam Car, but many former Stanley dealers got exasperated waiting for it.</HTML>
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