1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
Steam car gauge face resilver
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: August 26, 2003 12:35AM
<HTML>I have a number of steam car gauges that need their faces resilvered. As you are aware, there is a circular satin finish that is in the silver plating of Ashton gauges. I need that redone plus the numbers re-inked. Who in the U.S. can do this and can do the best quality? I learned real quickly, never used anything but silver pollish on gauge faces. Anything else quickly removes the silver down to the base metal. :-(</HTML>
Re: Steam car gauge face resilver
Posted by: Rolly (IP Logged)
Date: August 26, 2003 09:00AM
<HTML>Pat
If you’re going to pull them apart your self, there are probably many places that will plate the parts. I have dealt with many over the years.
If you want the gauge rebuilt and calibrated send it to John Gould in England. He did two for me, after I had sent them to three different companies hear in the states.
I had new burden tubes installed, re-plating and faces re-inked. They came back like new.
Rolly</HTML>
If you’re going to pull them apart your self, there are probably many places that will plate the parts. I have dealt with many over the years.
If you want the gauge rebuilt and calibrated send it to John Gould in England. He did two for me, after I had sent them to three different companies hear in the states.
I had new burden tubes installed, re-plating and faces re-inked. They came back like new.
Rolly</HTML>
Re: Steam car gauge face resilver
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: August 26, 2003 12:47PM
<HTML>I can pull out the faces myself and I can get them plated at many different places. But to get the spun finish on the gauge face and also getting the numbers re-inked is the challenge. I do not have the experience to do either. Is there anywhere here in the states that can do it? Is the spun finish done on the face before or after plating? If so, I can do that on my lathe. Re inking, maybe I can experiment until I get it right. Any more ideas?</HTML>
Re: Steam car gauge face resilver
Posted by: Jordan (IP Logged)
Date: August 26, 2003 01:40PM
<HTML>I would give Phil Knoughton a ring - he may have someone for you.
Speedometer Repair Service 3711 Amidon, Wichita KS 67204 -- 316/838-5936
Good Luck,
Jordan</HTML>
Speedometer Repair Service 3711 Amidon, Wichita KS 67204 -- 316/838-5936
Good Luck,
Jordan</HTML>
Re: Steam car gauge face resilver
Posted by: Alan Woolf (IP Logged)
Date: August 26, 2003 11:35PM
<HTML>Pat,
If you look closely at some of your gage faces I think what you will discover is that the spun finish you are referring to is not in the plating. What you are seeing are the machining marks in the brass underneath the plating. The silver plate on the gage face is quite thin and it picks up the marks from the brass plate. You have probably already discovered that it does not take much effort to rub throught the plating.
We have had good success replating faces using one of the inexpensive brush electroplating kits sold by Texas Platers Supply or Caswell (see info below). The thing to keep in mind is that the plating was thin and not extremely shiny. It was sort of dull. We unwittingly replated one gauge face with bright nickel and discovered that it is hard to read. You don't want the background to be too shiny. After the face is plated the letters and numbers can be redone by simply spraying the face with black lacquer or enamel paint and then using lacquer thinner on a clean rag wrapped around a small flat block of wood or a rubber sanding block. The areas that you want to retain the paint are etched into the plate and lower than the outer surface of the plate and the idea is to remove everything on that surface. As the rag picks up the excess paint a fresh surface on the rag will have to be used and continue to remove the excess. It sounds a little tricky but is actually quite easy once you understand the process. Of course if you are working on a fuel pressure gage this operation will have to be repeated a second time for the red letters and numbers.
If you are dealing with a bunch of gauges you might want to keep an eye out for a dead weight gauge tester. New ones are available but they cost $2000! Dead weight testers turn up on Ebay all along. We picked up a circa 1920's Ashton tester with the weights on Ebay about 3 years ago for less than $150.00. The trick is find one with the weights. It seems like most of the one available don't have weights. A calibrator is a handy thing to have available. It is a good idea to check your gages from time to time. They can get out of calibration.
Alan
Texas Platers Supply, 2453 W. Five-Mile Parkway, Dallas, Texas 75233, Telephone: (214) 330-7168.
Caswell plating sells a wide range of plating kits and supplies for all your plating needs Contact: CASWELL, Inc., 4336 Route 31, Palmyra, NY 14522-9719, USA, Telephone: (315) 597-5140, sales@caswellplating.com</HTML>
If you look closely at some of your gage faces I think what you will discover is that the spun finish you are referring to is not in the plating. What you are seeing are the machining marks in the brass underneath the plating. The silver plate on the gage face is quite thin and it picks up the marks from the brass plate. You have probably already discovered that it does not take much effort to rub throught the plating.
We have had good success replating faces using one of the inexpensive brush electroplating kits sold by Texas Platers Supply or Caswell (see info below). The thing to keep in mind is that the plating was thin and not extremely shiny. It was sort of dull. We unwittingly replated one gauge face with bright nickel and discovered that it is hard to read. You don't want the background to be too shiny. After the face is plated the letters and numbers can be redone by simply spraying the face with black lacquer or enamel paint and then using lacquer thinner on a clean rag wrapped around a small flat block of wood or a rubber sanding block. The areas that you want to retain the paint are etched into the plate and lower than the outer surface of the plate and the idea is to remove everything on that surface. As the rag picks up the excess paint a fresh surface on the rag will have to be used and continue to remove the excess. It sounds a little tricky but is actually quite easy once you understand the process. Of course if you are working on a fuel pressure gage this operation will have to be repeated a second time for the red letters and numbers.
If you are dealing with a bunch of gauges you might want to keep an eye out for a dead weight gauge tester. New ones are available but they cost $2000! Dead weight testers turn up on Ebay all along. We picked up a circa 1920's Ashton tester with the weights on Ebay about 3 years ago for less than $150.00. The trick is find one with the weights. It seems like most of the one available don't have weights. A calibrator is a handy thing to have available. It is a good idea to check your gages from time to time. They can get out of calibration.
Alan
Texas Platers Supply, 2453 W. Five-Mile Parkway, Dallas, Texas 75233, Telephone: (214) 330-7168.
Caswell plating sells a wide range of plating kits and supplies for all your plating needs Contact: CASWELL, Inc., 4336 Route 31, Palmyra, NY 14522-9719, USA, Telephone: (315) 597-5140, sales@caswellplating.com</HTML>
Re: Steam car gauge face resilver
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: August 27, 2003 12:56AM
<HTML>Thank you for the directions. I will follow Alan's lead as I have a bunch of gauge faces in need of attention. It sounds like an easy task to get them all correct again.</HTML>
Re: Steam car gauge dial restore
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: December 27, 2007 06:26AM
In reading the "Home Shop Machinist" January/February 2008, this is what they said about restoring the gauge dial: "Using a fine abrasive pad while holding the dial against a solid backing plate in the lathe, even out the imperfections and also remove what was left of the black paint used to highlight the recessed numerals and graduations stamped into the dial. (next is when the Stanley dials should be silver plated) Next step is to remedy the lost markings, enamel paint is thinned to almost a watery consistency, applied with cotton swabs, and allowed to flow into the recessed areas. The excess is removed from the dial itself almost immediately. Several applications gradually fill the recessed areas with little residue left on the smooth dial face. A final polishing of the dial gives finished results..." Hopefully this information wil help many others. Pat Farrell
Re: Steam car gauge face resilver
Posted by: John Buscher (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2007 10:20PM
I agree with Pat's method from Home Shop Machinist except for the part about the plating.
I think the dial faces on Stanley pressure gages (and water, oil, fuel level gages) were plated with tin, not silver. Silver plate will always turn almost black, tin at worst develops a white oxide coating which contrasts nicely with the black letters.
The tin plate can be applied by using one of the plating fluids used to tin prototype printed circuit boards. The part is simply dipped in the liquid for a few minutes and rinsed off.
Or have them tin plated by a plating shop.
John Buscher
I think the dial faces on Stanley pressure gages (and water, oil, fuel level gages) were plated with tin, not silver. Silver plate will always turn almost black, tin at worst develops a white oxide coating which contrasts nicely with the black letters.
The tin plate can be applied by using one of the plating fluids used to tin prototype printed circuit boards. The part is simply dipped in the liquid for a few minutes and rinsed off.
Or have them tin plated by a plating shop.
John Buscher
Re: Steam car gauge face resilver
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: December 29, 2007 06:18PM
Dear John, Thank you for your reply. I have often thought about the quick plating that can be done with chemical dips. They are quick and may look better than what you started with. As for silver plating the dial faces, it is the most common plating used for dial faces because of it's reflective abilities of light. That is why silver is the preferred plating for all light reflectors. Tarnish isn't much of a problem if you can prevent oxidation by keeping the dial faces covered and free from dirt. Keeping the glass in place on a clean dial will help a lot. They still tarnish and they always have. On our 1914 Stanley 606, Ole Vickre resilvered the dial faces for me in 1985 and I haven't touched them since. They still look good. Sorry that he is now gone and so are his services. In the book "The American Steam Gauge" by Barry Lee David, he covers gauge restoration on page 83. He writes: "After repainting, re-silvering can be done if necessary...Silver plating is a 99.987% real silver solution that actually cleans and recoats the brass surface with silver. A dull silver finish is natural for an antique guage dial. Silverplate will also help clean dirty silvered dials that don't necessairily need re-silvering." I found out also in the book that they did a burning dial fill before they did their re-silvering. Barry wrote: "A profieient craftsman would slightly overfill the depressions and finish the dial on a sanding wheel prior to plating with silver. This would help to explain the circular striations that I have noticed on most of the antique brass dials."
Re: Steam car gauge face resilver
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: February 09, 2008 04:07PM
Pat,
Here is a site that explains how the clock guys resilver faces. [www.bhi.co.uk] I have used (label gone) a bottle of this silver chloride solution to resilver gauge faces of much larger gauges that I have restored. It works great on pennies too! Here is another site with an excellent treatise on resilvering [www.davewestclocks.co.uk] .
The recipe for the resilvering solution is
1 part silver chloride
2 parts cream of tarter (potassium bitartrate)
3 parts common salt (sodium chloride)
An internet search may provide you with a source for the solution already made up.
(you must keep it in a light free environment till use.)
Steam Stuff
Boats, Cars, Engines, Whistles, Toys
Steam Library
Here is a site that explains how the clock guys resilver faces. [www.bhi.co.uk] I have used (label gone) a bottle of this silver chloride solution to resilver gauge faces of much larger gauges that I have restored. It works great on pennies too! Here is another site with an excellent treatise on resilvering [www.davewestclocks.co.uk] .
The recipe for the resilvering solution is
1 part silver chloride
2 parts cream of tarter (potassium bitartrate)
3 parts common salt (sodium chloride)
An internet search may provide you with a source for the solution already made up.
(you must keep it in a light free environment till use.)
Steam Stuff
Boats, Cars, Engines, Whistles, Toys
Steam Library
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