1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
Boiler tubes
Posted by: Timothy J. Senior (IP Logged)
Date: February 15, 2002 11:50AM
<HTML>In a week minded moment I cooked the copper tubes in my Stanley model 63 (10 H.P. non-condensing) .What are the pros. & cons. of stainless replacements.</HTML>
Re: Boiler tubes
Posted by: David K. Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: February 16, 2002 11:28AM
<HTML>I have heard that stainless is attacked seriously if chlorinated water is used for feed. As many cities chlorinate their water....</HTML>
Re: Boiler tubes
Posted by: coburn benson (IP Logged)
Date: February 16, 2002 11:37PM
<HTML>The S tubes ,,being much harde ,will need a lot more force to expand,,Is the tube spacing enough to allow this extra force without cracking between holes XXXXXX Did you overheat the bottom tube sheet,,did it stay flat? etc,,If it was not too bad can you just expand the tubes again,, XXXX Is the shell ok? Is the wire ok,,now is the time to check,,Or are you running a heavy shell/no wire? Good luck Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: Boiler tubes
Posted by: Timothy J. Senior (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2002 09:05AM
<HTML> Tube sheet appears to be ok. I've tried expanding with a 2 degree drift but can't get them water tight. The boiler is very heavy,not wire wound, 1/2 shell, 3/8 sheets, copper tubes and steel stays. I would rather not retube, do you think a rotary expander might work? How about ferrules?</HTML>
Re: Boiler tubes
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2002 10:53AM
<HTML>David is right, chlorine pinholes stainless in time. A friend sent me a post from a steam discussion board about chloride corrosion, with references, which I have now lost but referenced somewhere (?) on my website. Jim recently wrote somewhere (here?) that free hydrogen in fire attacks stainless too, so it gets eaten from both sides. Ben's notes on expanding it are worth considering, the stuff does work-harden like crazy. Stainless is out, for me anyway; chromoly for superheaters now.
Your boiler sounds like it was built to the Eckels blueprints. Originals were built lighter. Roller expanders are usually recommended. The Eckels prints (from SACA) have plans for them; also I found a place in Texas that sells them in about a million sizes at good price, and can dig up the link if you're interested. I plan to pick up a couple for my (non-Stanley) project when the time comes. Eckels & all other sources I've seen also recommend ferrules for expanded copper tubes.
Some late Stanleys had Parkerized steel tubes (& shell/heads?), and I have read reports of amazing life for these in continuous old-style daily-driver service (24/7 pilot) with original (oil-line-clogging) distillate/graphite oil & proper maintenance. Won't repeat the endurance figures for fear of starting controversy. :) Today's cars that sit cold with air in damp boilers between tours/seasons (has anybody tried hanging bags of silica gel inside for boiler layup?), prob. couldn't duplicate this anyway. I wonder if any modern retubes have tried Parkerized tubing?
Peter</HTML>
Your boiler sounds like it was built to the Eckels blueprints. Originals were built lighter. Roller expanders are usually recommended. The Eckels prints (from SACA) have plans for them; also I found a place in Texas that sells them in about a million sizes at good price, and can dig up the link if you're interested. I plan to pick up a couple for my (non-Stanley) project when the time comes. Eckels & all other sources I've seen also recommend ferrules for expanded copper tubes.
Some late Stanleys had Parkerized steel tubes (& shell/heads?), and I have read reports of amazing life for these in continuous old-style daily-driver service (24/7 pilot) with original (oil-line-clogging) distillate/graphite oil & proper maintenance. Won't repeat the endurance figures for fear of starting controversy. :) Today's cars that sit cold with air in damp boilers between tours/seasons (has anybody tried hanging bags of silica gel inside for boiler layup?), prob. couldn't duplicate this anyway. I wonder if any modern retubes have tried Parkerized tubing?
Peter</HTML>
Re: Boiler tubes--stainless note
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2002 11:04AM
<HTML>Interesting "BTW" on stainless tubing. Andy Patterson once mentioned that stainless in boilers increases in heat-transfer efficiency over time, as corrosion increases the surface area! First the pits (microfins? microthimbles? microextendedsurfaces?) help you out, then they pinhole on you. This was noted in commercial service; even with top professional boiler treatment the stuff slowly dissolves. Any boiler material does, of course; stainless is just faster under some conditions.
Peter</HTML>
Peter</HTML>
Re: Boiler tubes--stainless note
Posted by: Bruce Waterworth (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2002 11:53AM
<HTML>
I have some boiler construction paperwork from Dick French in which he recomends 90-10 Copper-Nickel. In his 30hp boiler he rolled the tubes,used no ferrules and pressure tested to 1400psi.</HTML>
I have some boiler construction paperwork from Dick French in which he recomends 90-10 Copper-Nickel. In his 30hp boiler he rolled the tubes,used no ferrules and pressure tested to 1400psi.</HTML>
Re: Boiler tubes--stainless note
Posted by: coburn benson (IP Logged)
Date: February 17, 2002 06:35PM
<HTML>A few points to consider::::who recalls Petersons humor,,,[re corrosion],,,I have been advised to spray water on my wood pile so it wont burn so fast!!! There were 2 Petersons the fellow at the 1955 lakeville meet is gone now,,,,XXXX If youre going to test at hi pressure,,do you know what tension is on the wire?? Not app'e to the heavy shell of course BBut i can only assume our audience will try to utalize what we present here,,,XXXXthe early Stanley SHELLS were .040 copper ,,wound ,,, LOWER [psi]pressure of course,,,[WOW} The idea was that the shell AND tubes expand at same rate,,,AVOIDING the stress from unequal expansion of different metals,,,,, Now consider this,,Rough road,, the string on the water bottle guage falls off at nite ,,lo water ,, pressure goes down ,,boiler overheats ,,the srink ring clamping the shell to the tube sheets ,,EXPANDS,,,,the rings revolve ,which the wire is fastend to !!allowing the wire to come loose,,The boiler holds water like a motheaten ball of yarn ,,This is the story of Donald Jones' father,,of Rowley Mass,,XXXX I think copper is ok but there IS a certain advantage to using a material that has a similar expansion rate,,,I am not sure if the tubes near the side are more or less affected by this ,,,The center of the boiler should be more flexable,,,Does anyone want to calculate the hight of the boiler w/ hi---lo water?? The strain on each tube is not too much [ASSUMING the tubes havent been annealed in the prevous 5 min] BUT WATCH OUT for the strain in the SHELL ,, My regards to Rev Inkvist [USA joke] Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: Boiler tubes
Posted by: Don Eckel (IP Logged)
Date: February 21, 2002 01:07AM
<HTML>Regarding the original problem. hat's the problem? If the bottom and top tube sheets are intact, and they have not thined too much- boiler original to the car? Then just reexpand the copper tubes- opps- steel ferrules. If you need details as to how to do it- just write directly to me. 10hp boiler- air compressor and soap suds and you can fix it in a couple of hours!
As to comment on cupranickel (sp) boiler tubes used by Dick French it wasn't Dicks idea- Earle S. Eckel used it first in his 1914 roadster.</HTML>
As to comment on cupranickel (sp) boiler tubes used by Dick French it wasn't Dicks idea- Earle S. Eckel used it first in his 1914 roadster.</HTML>
Re: Boiler tubes
Posted by: elsayed nasr (IP Logged)
Date: January 25, 2006 08:11AM
<HTML>Dear Sir,
Would you please, give us the best price for the following boiler tubes specifications:
- The material of tubes:SA213 T 2
- The outer diameter 63.5 mm
- Thickness 8.5 mm
- The length of tube is 7.00 meters
- The material has tobe up to 300 bars on 500 c
- The requiered quantity 500 length meters.
- The certified certificate of origon is requiered
- ASTM tests is requiered.
- Tubes has to be coated with anti rust.,backed inside wooden box and ended with plastic cover.
- All the analyzes is requiered according to international standerds ASTEM
Your so soon reply will be appricited.
Regards
E.N.Eldin</HTML>
Would you please, give us the best price for the following boiler tubes specifications:
- The material of tubes:SA213 T 2
- The outer diameter 63.5 mm
- Thickness 8.5 mm
- The length of tube is 7.00 meters
- The material has tobe up to 300 bars on 500 c
- The requiered quantity 500 length meters.
- The certified certificate of origon is requiered
- ASTM tests is requiered.
- Tubes has to be coated with anti rust.,backed inside wooden box and ended with plastic cover.
- All the analyzes is requiered according to international standerds ASTEM
Your so soon reply will be appricited.
Regards
E.N.Eldin</HTML>
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