1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
MTBE
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: October 31, 2003 01:30PM
<HTML>I have seen the gasoline additive MTBE in the news alot lately as it is poisioning the ground water in many places across the country. In fact many states are fighting the oil companies in court to ban the use of it. MTBE is an additive that increases the available oxygen for combustion in IC cars making a cleaner burn and reducing the unburnt hydrocarbons of incomplete combustion.
This is a perfect point to use to promote the idea of steam cars as no dangerous fuel additives need be used for clean external combustion. This is one example how the auto industry has grasped the last remaining technologies to make the IC auto meet air polution standards. There is little more that can be done to the IC engine to make it much cleaner burning than the best engines of today except fuel modifications or shutting them off.
If fuel modifications for clean air mean our drinking water must be poisioned, than I am all for turning them off.</HTML>
This is a perfect point to use to promote the idea of steam cars as no dangerous fuel additives need be used for clean external combustion. This is one example how the auto industry has grasped the last remaining technologies to make the IC auto meet air polution standards. There is little more that can be done to the IC engine to make it much cleaner burning than the best engines of today except fuel modifications or shutting them off.
If fuel modifications for clean air mean our drinking water must be poisioned, than I am all for turning them off.</HTML>
Re: MTBE
Posted by: Arnold Walker (IP Logged)
Date: October 31, 2003 02:43PM
<HTML>This point sort of reenforces what other members have said about antique
steamers pasting modern emission test with no modication.</HTML>
steamers pasting modern emission test with no modication.</HTML>
Re: MTBE
Posted by: Brian Drake (IP Logged)
Date: October 31, 2003 10:57PM
<HTML>Actually, many of the oil companies are now OPPOSED to MTBE. Tosco, which owns Circle K has quit adding it to their fuels unless required to by law. Mother Jones News had an article about this some 10 or so years ago, describing what the dangers of MTBE were. It made comparisons to lead in gasoline (which a steamer wouldn't need, either) in the lethality of the stuff, and the conspiratorial nature in which both lead and MTBE were approved for use in gasoline.</HTML>
Re: MTBE
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: November 01, 2003 02:23PM
<HTML>Gentlemen,
MTBE was crammed down everyone's throat by the incompetent EPA, with the California Air Resourcs Board doing their usual song and dance based on false reports and political A...s kissing. Remember the doomed electric cars?
Also, MTBE diffuses through the fiberglass tanks in service stations, also mandated in CA by the CARB. Phony science again. You didn't think that the tanks were leaking, did you?
There are reformulated gasolines that do a better job than MTBE or alcohol. Alcohol is now mandated by the EPA for one reason.
The Archer-Daniels-Midland corporation was the second largest contributor to Bush's campaign. They are the largest Midwest producer of alcohol. Does that tell you anything?
Getting the sulfur out would be the biggest benefit.
The steamer can burn the simplest of light liquid fuels without any added complications to the burner. Cold startup is the big problem with steamers.
Jim</HTML>
MTBE was crammed down everyone's throat by the incompetent EPA, with the California Air Resourcs Board doing their usual song and dance based on false reports and political A...s kissing. Remember the doomed electric cars?
Also, MTBE diffuses through the fiberglass tanks in service stations, also mandated in CA by the CARB. Phony science again. You didn't think that the tanks were leaking, did you?
There are reformulated gasolines that do a better job than MTBE or alcohol. Alcohol is now mandated by the EPA for one reason.
The Archer-Daniels-Midland corporation was the second largest contributor to Bush's campaign. They are the largest Midwest producer of alcohol. Does that tell you anything?
Getting the sulfur out would be the biggest benefit.
The steamer can burn the simplest of light liquid fuels without any added complications to the burner. Cold startup is the big problem with steamers.
Jim</HTML>
Re: MTBE
Posted by: Mike Clark (IP Logged)
Date: November 01, 2003 07:34PM
<HTML>What is MTBE - chemically speaking?
Mike</HTML>
Mike</HTML>
Re: MTBE
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: November 02, 2003 10:45AM
<HTML>Hey Jim,
Glad you spoke up on this. I wrote a whole rant about this subject last night, then decided not to post it as I'm really sick of politics lately. But you covered most of my points, incl the ADM angle. Don't forget the role of ARCO in pushing MTBE, guess who owned the patents on MTBE, and guess which increasingly cartelized/noncompetitive industry has (by sheer coincidence, I'm sure) benefitted most from independent gas stations going out of business by the thousands due to the cost of tank replacement? Crooked companies exploit the environmental angle, "anti-corporate" environmentalists fall for it hook, line, and sinker & unwittingly enrich the big players, not sure any more which "side" is worse.
The whole fuel field is a racket, one obscene scam after another at taxpayer/consumer expense. The only bright side of this racket is the perception that this (like hybrids, fuel cells, H2, etc) is "where the action is", so perhaps steam cars can slip in under the enviro-corporate radar, with the steam car genie out of the bottle before "They" realize it. Steamers can use the mandate-racket gas while making it unnecessary!
Peter</HTML>
Glad you spoke up on this. I wrote a whole rant about this subject last night, then decided not to post it as I'm really sick of politics lately. But you covered most of my points, incl the ADM angle. Don't forget the role of ARCO in pushing MTBE, guess who owned the patents on MTBE, and guess which increasingly cartelized/noncompetitive industry has (by sheer coincidence, I'm sure) benefitted most from independent gas stations going out of business by the thousands due to the cost of tank replacement? Crooked companies exploit the environmental angle, "anti-corporate" environmentalists fall for it hook, line, and sinker & unwittingly enrich the big players, not sure any more which "side" is worse.
The whole fuel field is a racket, one obscene scam after another at taxpayer/consumer expense. The only bright side of this racket is the perception that this (like hybrids, fuel cells, H2, etc) is "where the action is", so perhaps steam cars can slip in under the enviro-corporate radar, with the steam car genie out of the bottle before "They" realize it. Steamers can use the mandate-racket gas while making it unnecessary!
Peter</HTML>
Re: MTBE
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: November 03, 2003 08:52PM
<HTML>Mike,
The internet is full of information on MTBE.
[www.epa.gov]
MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether)
from the EPA Office of Underground Storage Tanks.</HTML>
The internet is full of information on MTBE.
[www.epa.gov]
MTBE (methyl tertiary butyl ether)
from the EPA Office of Underground Storage Tanks.</HTML>
Re: MTBE
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: November 22, 2003 04:29PM
<HTML>That was quick, the new energy bill in session provides great protection to the companies that make MTBE and pollute our ground water with it. Of course, these companies are subsidiaries or spin offs of the oil companies. They could use more protection from public liability like the rest of the corporations that run the government.
It is terrible how political gods add provisions to a bill like this to make the nay votes look like they are doing harm to their constitutients.
Fortunatly the bill is stalled, I hope for ever.
Peter Heid</HTML>
It is terrible how political gods add provisions to a bill like this to make the nay votes look like they are doing harm to their constitutients.
Fortunatly the bill is stalled, I hope for ever.
Peter Heid</HTML>
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