1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
Clincher Tire Problem
Posted by: Harry Hibler (IP Logged)
Date: March 31, 2004 06:44PM
<HTML>Russ Hibler's replica l900 Locomobile gave rides to many steam enthusiasts at the Northwest Steam Society shop meet weekend before last. But at the end of the day as the car was sitting idle waiting to be loaded in the truck for the trip home, the right front tire blew off the rim - BANG. The next day back home, after replacing the blown tire with spare wheel & tire, we rolled the car out of the garage to empty and fill the water tank to measure its volume, rolled the car back into the garage. An hour later the left rear tire blew off the rim. That was the fifth blow off since Fall 2002!!
Art Hart sent us e-mail last month saying he had similar problems until he put flaps inside the tires. On the first three blow offs we had only been using 1-1/2 inch rim strips. So we purchased flaps and had them installed before going to the NWSS shop meet. Tire pressure was 60 psi.
Rims, Tires, Tubes and Flaps were all purchased from Coker Tire:
Rim - 28 X 2-1/4 Clincher, 40 spoke, Stock No. 919963
Tire - 28 X 2-1/4 Clincher, Firestone Racing Black, Stock No. 79325
Tube - 28 X 2-1/2, 275/300-23, Stock No. 87150
Flap - 23 inch size, 23 X 4-1/2", Stock No. 88700
All five blow offs have occured while car was at rest, not in area where tire touches the ground. Blow offs have been on three different rims. All items are new. Rims are nickel plated.
Has anyone had experience with these particular tires & rims?
Harry Hibler</HTML>
Art Hart sent us e-mail last month saying he had similar problems until he put flaps inside the tires. On the first three blow offs we had only been using 1-1/2 inch rim strips. So we purchased flaps and had them installed before going to the NWSS shop meet. Tire pressure was 60 psi.
Rims, Tires, Tubes and Flaps were all purchased from Coker Tire:
Rim - 28 X 2-1/4 Clincher, 40 spoke, Stock No. 919963
Tire - 28 X 2-1/4 Clincher, Firestone Racing Black, Stock No. 79325
Tube - 28 X 2-1/2, 275/300-23, Stock No. 87150
Flap - 23 inch size, 23 X 4-1/2", Stock No. 88700
All five blow offs have occured while car was at rest, not in area where tire touches the ground. Blow offs have been on three different rims. All items are new. Rims are nickel plated.
Has anyone had experience with these particular tires & rims?
Harry Hibler</HTML>
Re: Clincher Tire Problem
Posted by: Gary Hoonsbeen (IP Logged)
Date: April 04, 2004 12:05PM
<HTML>On June 3rd 1985 three of us left San Francisco with our Curved Dash Oldsmobiles to travel 3844 miles, arriving in New York City 38 days later. All three of our cars were equipped with 28 x 3 inch tires.
My own CDO had Firestone tires which, according to the Firestone factory were manufactured in the late 1940's. They were not bady worn but they were as hard as a rock. If figured they were worth "using-up" and a new set was in our back-up vehicle "just in case."
Roy had new tires on his car, all black and supplied by a popular dealer.
Joe had four new, all white, tires on his 1904 CDO.
To the best of my recollection all the wheels had original rims, at least none of them were newly manufactured.
I did not use flaps with my tires, but the rims were wraped with a couple of layers of black cloth electrical tape. Not one flat tire was experienced on this trip with my vehicle. The two old Firestone tires lasted for about 2500 miles until they started peeling off chunks of rubber down to the cords. No, I did not replace them for another few hunderd miles, wrapping them instead with duck-tape in places where the rubber was missing. I did this primarily because I had nothing to loose and it was a spectacular attraction everywhere we stopped. The duck-tape would last for about 50 miles or around three hours. Finally I gave up and replaced the two front tires, but the rear's lasted the entire trip and for a year or two after returning home. I did experience some tire-creep as described below, but only on one or two occations, towards the end of the trip.
Roy had a few flat tires, maybe 7, but they were from punctures and another cause which needs to be addressed. As we drove these cars on the hot highway surfaces, they would tend to creep on the rims which could be noticed by the tire stems moving from a straight position to one that tipped the further we drove. At first we did not pay much attention to the issue. but when the third innertube broke its stem off at the tube, we put two-and-two together and became aware of this tire-creep problem. To correct this we would check the tires each day and if the stem started to tip, the air would be removed and the tire turned back on the rim until the stem was straight again. (not easy to do) One of the issues was the use of a lubricant when installing the tires on the clincher rims. Roy used a soap to make installation easier and that, I strongly believe, is wrong. Any lubricant to make installation easier also reduces the friction that holds the clincher tires bead inside the edges of the rim. MOUNT TIRES WITHOUT ANY LUBRICATION.
Now Joe had a real problem. We recorded over 56 "flat" tires in the nearly 4000 mile trip. He had all white tires on his CDO and the problem was not punctures but the tires were "rolling" off the rims. When this happened the innertube would burst. We tried just about every air pressure possible and the use of flaps made no difference. By the time we got to Chicago or Lansing we were tired of changing these white tires and replaced them all with good old reliable back tires. That solved the problem. As far as I am concered white tires are good for one thing, looking at them. Maybe things have changed since 1985, but someone else will need to answer that.
I also recall that the late Norm Nielsen, of Minneapolis, took 7 years to finish the restoration of his 1904 Oldsmobile and by the time it was road ready he had already experienced 6 flats (only one remained inflated) from the car just sitting in his garage. They were all white tires.
My observations are:
* 40 pounds is enough air for 28 x 3 tires.
* Do not use a lubricate for installing tires.
* Flaps are of no value what-so-ever. Wrap with cloth tape.
* Avoid white tires except if you never drive the vehcile. The white rubber does not have the strength of black rubber.
* If you can install the tires with a small bar or with your hands, take them off and get a better set. It should be a pains-taking effort to get clincher tires on the rims!
* Once a tire "rolls" off the rim, it is finished and likely not usable again. The exception might be if the tire is punctured first and then comes off, but generally a punctured tire should stay on the rim.
* Check for a straight stem and correct as soon as it is noticable.
* Any rims that are badly rusted at the clincher may be a problem if they are sharp, but I have never really experienced a "cut" tire because the rim's clincher generally does not reach far enough into the tire's bead to do any damage.
* Some new clincher tires had had purchased, some years ago, were completely void of any cord in the bead of the tire. No matter what you do, these will blow out within a few miles. If the bead is broken on a new tire, look to see if there is any cord in the cut area. Maybe all the tire manufacturers have figured that out by now.
Gary Hoonsbeen
Minneapolis MN</HTML>
My own CDO had Firestone tires which, according to the Firestone factory were manufactured in the late 1940's. They were not bady worn but they were as hard as a rock. If figured they were worth "using-up" and a new set was in our back-up vehicle "just in case."
Roy had new tires on his car, all black and supplied by a popular dealer.
Joe had four new, all white, tires on his 1904 CDO.
To the best of my recollection all the wheels had original rims, at least none of them were newly manufactured.
I did not use flaps with my tires, but the rims were wraped with a couple of layers of black cloth electrical tape. Not one flat tire was experienced on this trip with my vehicle. The two old Firestone tires lasted for about 2500 miles until they started peeling off chunks of rubber down to the cords. No, I did not replace them for another few hunderd miles, wrapping them instead with duck-tape in places where the rubber was missing. I did this primarily because I had nothing to loose and it was a spectacular attraction everywhere we stopped. The duck-tape would last for about 50 miles or around three hours. Finally I gave up and replaced the two front tires, but the rear's lasted the entire trip and for a year or two after returning home. I did experience some tire-creep as described below, but only on one or two occations, towards the end of the trip.
Roy had a few flat tires, maybe 7, but they were from punctures and another cause which needs to be addressed. As we drove these cars on the hot highway surfaces, they would tend to creep on the rims which could be noticed by the tire stems moving from a straight position to one that tipped the further we drove. At first we did not pay much attention to the issue. but when the third innertube broke its stem off at the tube, we put two-and-two together and became aware of this tire-creep problem. To correct this we would check the tires each day and if the stem started to tip, the air would be removed and the tire turned back on the rim until the stem was straight again. (not easy to do) One of the issues was the use of a lubricant when installing the tires on the clincher rims. Roy used a soap to make installation easier and that, I strongly believe, is wrong. Any lubricant to make installation easier also reduces the friction that holds the clincher tires bead inside the edges of the rim. MOUNT TIRES WITHOUT ANY LUBRICATION.
Now Joe had a real problem. We recorded over 56 "flat" tires in the nearly 4000 mile trip. He had all white tires on his CDO and the problem was not punctures but the tires were "rolling" off the rims. When this happened the innertube would burst. We tried just about every air pressure possible and the use of flaps made no difference. By the time we got to Chicago or Lansing we were tired of changing these white tires and replaced them all with good old reliable back tires. That solved the problem. As far as I am concered white tires are good for one thing, looking at them. Maybe things have changed since 1985, but someone else will need to answer that.
I also recall that the late Norm Nielsen, of Minneapolis, took 7 years to finish the restoration of his 1904 Oldsmobile and by the time it was road ready he had already experienced 6 flats (only one remained inflated) from the car just sitting in his garage. They were all white tires.
My observations are:
* 40 pounds is enough air for 28 x 3 tires.
* Do not use a lubricate for installing tires.
* Flaps are of no value what-so-ever. Wrap with cloth tape.
* Avoid white tires except if you never drive the vehcile. The white rubber does not have the strength of black rubber.
* If you can install the tires with a small bar or with your hands, take them off and get a better set. It should be a pains-taking effort to get clincher tires on the rims!
* Once a tire "rolls" off the rim, it is finished and likely not usable again. The exception might be if the tire is punctured first and then comes off, but generally a punctured tire should stay on the rim.
* Check for a straight stem and correct as soon as it is noticable.
* Any rims that are badly rusted at the clincher may be a problem if they are sharp, but I have never really experienced a "cut" tire because the rim's clincher generally does not reach far enough into the tire's bead to do any damage.
* Some new clincher tires had had purchased, some years ago, were completely void of any cord in the bead of the tire. No matter what you do, these will blow out within a few miles. If the bead is broken on a new tire, look to see if there is any cord in the cut area. Maybe all the tire manufacturers have figured that out by now.
Gary Hoonsbeen
Minneapolis MN</HTML>
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