1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
New to site/Doble Information
Posted by: Chuck Sherman (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2004 03:48PM
<HTML>Hi all!
I'm new to the site; am in process of doing research (for my own use) on alternative power systems. I'm in the process of designing a CHP system for my house; will hopefully have it up and running by spring.
In the meantime, I've been a member of the old car hobby for 30+ years. Over the decades, the mainstream vehicles hold less and less interest; the oddball 'out-there' stuff is what really captures the imagination these days. For example, my summer fun ride these days is a Ukranian sidecar motorcycle - I never pass myself on the way to work!
Anyway, my day job has me involved in steam powerhouses for the automotive industry. Sadly, the general consensus is the auto industry (post the Rouge 'event') is getting out of the steam business. The main issue is maintainability of a distributed steam heating system, FWIW. Seems a shame, but it's happening as you read this.
In doing the research for CHP, I came across this site. I was peripherally aware of the Doble; knew just enough to pique my interest. I have several questions:
1) Are there restorable Dobles (yes, I know there were precious few made) available for sale, and if so, how much?
2) I have seen reference to a book by Jim Crank. Is this book available yet?
3) Has anyone checked out the Automotive History Archive of the Detroit public library for tech detail on the Doble? I have used it to great success on other research projects, like tech information on some of the Marmon's innovations, and air cooled engine theory by Hans Ledwinka.
4) Finally...
Has anyone here considered building a steam hybrid - a combination of a recip steam engine with a condensing turbine to provide motive power from steam and electricity? Seems the thermal efficiency of the system (in theory) would exceed that of an IC hybrid. Just a wild thought.
Thanks for reading - I'll appreciate any and all replies.
Thanks in advance,
Chuck.</HTML>
I'm new to the site; am in process of doing research (for my own use) on alternative power systems. I'm in the process of designing a CHP system for my house; will hopefully have it up and running by spring.
In the meantime, I've been a member of the old car hobby for 30+ years. Over the decades, the mainstream vehicles hold less and less interest; the oddball 'out-there' stuff is what really captures the imagination these days. For example, my summer fun ride these days is a Ukranian sidecar motorcycle - I never pass myself on the way to work!
Anyway, my day job has me involved in steam powerhouses for the automotive industry. Sadly, the general consensus is the auto industry (post the Rouge 'event') is getting out of the steam business. The main issue is maintainability of a distributed steam heating system, FWIW. Seems a shame, but it's happening as you read this.
In doing the research for CHP, I came across this site. I was peripherally aware of the Doble; knew just enough to pique my interest. I have several questions:
1) Are there restorable Dobles (yes, I know there were precious few made) available for sale, and if so, how much?
2) I have seen reference to a book by Jim Crank. Is this book available yet?
3) Has anyone checked out the Automotive History Archive of the Detroit public library for tech detail on the Doble? I have used it to great success on other research projects, like tech information on some of the Marmon's innovations, and air cooled engine theory by Hans Ledwinka.
4) Finally...
Has anyone here considered building a steam hybrid - a combination of a recip steam engine with a condensing turbine to provide motive power from steam and electricity? Seems the thermal efficiency of the system (in theory) would exceed that of an IC hybrid. Just a wild thought.
Thanks for reading - I'll appreciate any and all replies.
Thanks in advance,
Chuck.</HTML>
Re: New to site/Doble Information
Posted by: Christopher W. roberts (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2004 02:06AM
<HTML> I don't know of any Dobles for sale or in restorable conditions. When they do come up they are in the1 million dollar range and up.
Personally I think White built the best steam car ever, with Stanley a very close second. While parts for both cars are getting harder and harder to find, more people are famular with White and Stanley and can make them run well.
Stanley when new just as today is an excelant car. If restored and maintained to factory specs they give almost no trouble at all.
CWR</HTML>
Personally I think White built the best steam car ever, with Stanley a very close second. While parts for both cars are getting harder and harder to find, more people are famular with White and Stanley and can make them run well.
Stanley when new just as today is an excelant car. If restored and maintained to factory specs they give almost no trouble at all.
CWR</HTML>
Re: New to site/Doble Information
Posted by: Todd (IP Logged)
Date: August 21, 2005 03:09AM
<HTML>It is my dream to build a steam hybrid. I am 40 yrs old and when I was a child I drew plans of a hybrid like the ones they have today. I moved on, and in my teans I invented a variable lobe cam, but I didn't know how to get anyone interested. Eventually, I figured out how to make an electronic valve and use computers and direct fuel injection combined with a miller cylce. But that did not matter, because my genious was stiffled by my inability to win the ear of my college engineering professors {patent holding} and my GM {upper mgmt} mechanical engineer uncle by marriage.
Now, years later Toyota and Honda are building my childhood invention, the hybrid.
Americans, GM, might copy them once they figure out how. How embarrassing... I knew how back in elementary school!!!
Wow, some renegades are building plug in hybrids, boy that took some brains. NOT! Good grief, who would build a hybrid and not build it with plug in ability. Duuuu! damn, my childhood schematics had that!!!
Now remember my teenage invention was electronic valves that used the miller cycle to achieve peak performance. Ain't nobody advanced to my teenage invention!!!
Oh, the world is stupid.
How about my ideas during my adult years. Well, @!#$ the world cause they ain't listening and I got to pay the bills... But while you're listening... STEAM!!! yea, STEAM... Why not hydrogen fuel cell technology? That is too far off in the future... there are some hydrogen peroxide battery concepts that have membranes to produce power, that's COOL and just around the corner; BUT, the big deal should be, STEAM first, why you ask... because there is so much thermal loss in the modern reciprocating engine as designed in the average automobile...
The heat from the most advanced hybrids should be harnessed and converted into steam which is also recycled into power. WOW! who ever thought that a modern hybrid was wasting energy in the form of heat! If you can get 200 mpg out of the backward current designs. Add the Miller cycle and steam technology and just for fun go ahead and plut it in. The efficiency of a 100 mile trip should be 1000+ mpg!!!</HTML>
Now, years later Toyota and Honda are building my childhood invention, the hybrid.
Americans, GM, might copy them once they figure out how. How embarrassing... I knew how back in elementary school!!!
Wow, some renegades are building plug in hybrids, boy that took some brains. NOT! Good grief, who would build a hybrid and not build it with plug in ability. Duuuu! damn, my childhood schematics had that!!!
Now remember my teenage invention was electronic valves that used the miller cycle to achieve peak performance. Ain't nobody advanced to my teenage invention!!!
Oh, the world is stupid.
How about my ideas during my adult years. Well, @!#$ the world cause they ain't listening and I got to pay the bills... But while you're listening... STEAM!!! yea, STEAM... Why not hydrogen fuel cell technology? That is too far off in the future... there are some hydrogen peroxide battery concepts that have membranes to produce power, that's COOL and just around the corner; BUT, the big deal should be, STEAM first, why you ask... because there is so much thermal loss in the modern reciprocating engine as designed in the average automobile...
The heat from the most advanced hybrids should be harnessed and converted into steam which is also recycled into power. WOW! who ever thought that a modern hybrid was wasting energy in the form of heat! If you can get 200 mpg out of the backward current designs. Add the Miller cycle and steam technology and just for fun go ahead and plut it in. The efficiency of a 100 mile trip should be 1000+ mpg!!!</HTML>
Re: New to site/Doble Information
Posted by: Johnny Ryan (IP Logged)
Date: April 10, 2009 04:53AM
The hybrid has been here for decades folks. Jay Leno has one. A 1913 Owens magnetic. Check it out on YouTube.com and type in Jay Leno Hybrid. Pretty sad that in 1913 the by hybrids got 50mpg and todays hybrid gets 45. Todays hybrid and todays tech, they should be getting 200 mpg. What's up? And now, the Doble was a super car. Tons of torque (more than full size trucks) gets up goes with steam in we seconds (compared to Stanley) could go thousands of miles before major service. Is there anybody remaking this fine automobile? Someone is makeing a replica of Locomobile. There has be some steam guru building his own version. I've been searchin this answer for years can somebody shed some light. There has to be folks agree that Doble was a fine car and has to reintroduced.
Re: New to site/Doble Information
Posted by: Ben (IP Logged)
Date: April 10, 2009 08:32PM
Hi,,,Building a replica Doble would be similar to making a replica,,Silver Ghost,,Crane Simplex or a Locomobile 48,,simply cheeper to buy an original,,,,and save time,,and no I wouldn't bother with the Duesenburg ,My view,,,Ben
Re: New to site/Doble Information
Posted by: Johnny Ryan (IP Logged)
Date: April 10, 2009 09:08PM
Wow!! Ben, how far are you along? How are you going to fuel it? Are in California? I would love to see your car. I've seen steam cars,Whites,Stanleys,locomobile. They are so amazing! Simple and mechanical! But the Doble is just different. Do you belong to the Horseless Carriage Club?
Re: New to site/Doble Information
Posted by: Caleb Ramsby (IP Logged)
Date: April 10, 2009 10:23PM
Johnny, check your private message box. I sent you something.
Caleb Ramsby
Caleb Ramsby
Re: New to site/Doble Information
Posted by: Johnny Ryan (IP Logged)
Date: April 11, 2009 05:38AM
Thanx Caleb. I'm new to the Internet. New world to me. This is the greatest thing ever! Folks from all around who share the same interest at a push of a button! Caleb thank you! I have a 1915 modelT. Nice car, just wish I had a Doble or I would just be happy for a ride in one.
Re: New to site/Doble Information
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: April 11, 2009 09:10AM
Hi Johnny,
LOL, yep the internet is cool isn't it? I remember when I first went online ... whole new world ... way back in '96, can't believe it's ought-nine already ...
The Doble was an amazing car, though it did have some rarely-mentioned drawbacks. One was that the monotube boiler would eventually clog up with carbon deposits from oil; another was that the powerful electric fan in the burner would drain the battery in stop-and-go city driving. I hesitate to rub magic lamps, lest any genies appear, but the world's foremost Doble expert (no mere flattery that) sometimes posts here. Be careful what you wish for, Johnny.
Of course all the classic steam automobiles had their advantages and downsides, as with any automobile, ancient or modern. But a few of us, both known and unknown, accomplished and hopeful, are working to remedy the downsides and build upon the promise and potential shown by early examples of the breed, of which the magnificent Doble was only one.
The ModelWorks Locomobile replica which you mention was a fascinating project; in 2005 I traveled to England (a genuine "Stranger In A Strange Land" tale for this Southern Californian) to see the factory, and was quite impressed with the potential there. Alas, the ModelWorks Likamobile has since passed on, along with the company, though I hear that some are working to continue the effort, and I wish them every success.
I agree with what Ben suggests; a replica Doble would be a costly and astoundingly difficult technical challenge. To which I would add, an effort perhaps of questionable worth, overall. Then again, the team of reknowned steam car builder & driver Howard Langdon recently offered a new Doble F engine for sale (not to be confused with the better-known Doble E car). In modern circumstances, a turn-key, uncannily silent, smooth-running steam car with seemingly endless & effortless power -- the things the Doble was noted for -- will most likely have to take a somewhat different form. Exactly what that form might be is -- as it always has been, since the earliest days of the automobile -- a matter of considerable disagreement and debate.
However, the mere fact that there is disagreement and debate on this subject is a hopeful sign to me that the dream of the steam automobile is not a dead letter or footnote in automotive history, but still belongs to the future. It is my hope that these notes will provoke those with rare knowledge of this obscure and legendary technology to further accomplishments.
Peter
[www.geocities.com]
LOL, yep the internet is cool isn't it? I remember when I first went online ... whole new world ... way back in '96, can't believe it's ought-nine already ...
The Doble was an amazing car, though it did have some rarely-mentioned drawbacks. One was that the monotube boiler would eventually clog up with carbon deposits from oil; another was that the powerful electric fan in the burner would drain the battery in stop-and-go city driving. I hesitate to rub magic lamps, lest any genies appear, but the world's foremost Doble expert (no mere flattery that) sometimes posts here. Be careful what you wish for, Johnny.
Of course all the classic steam automobiles had their advantages and downsides, as with any automobile, ancient or modern. But a few of us, both known and unknown, accomplished and hopeful, are working to remedy the downsides and build upon the promise and potential shown by early examples of the breed, of which the magnificent Doble was only one.
The ModelWorks Locomobile replica which you mention was a fascinating project; in 2005 I traveled to England (a genuine "Stranger In A Strange Land" tale for this Southern Californian) to see the factory, and was quite impressed with the potential there. Alas, the ModelWorks Likamobile has since passed on, along with the company, though I hear that some are working to continue the effort, and I wish them every success.
I agree with what Ben suggests; a replica Doble would be a costly and astoundingly difficult technical challenge. To which I would add, an effort perhaps of questionable worth, overall. Then again, the team of reknowned steam car builder & driver Howard Langdon recently offered a new Doble F engine for sale (not to be confused with the better-known Doble E car). In modern circumstances, a turn-key, uncannily silent, smooth-running steam car with seemingly endless & effortless power -- the things the Doble was noted for -- will most likely have to take a somewhat different form. Exactly what that form might be is -- as it always has been, since the earliest days of the automobile -- a matter of considerable disagreement and debate.
However, the mere fact that there is disagreement and debate on this subject is a hopeful sign to me that the dream of the steam automobile is not a dead letter or footnote in automotive history, but still belongs to the future. It is my hope that these notes will provoke those with rare knowledge of this obscure and legendary technology to further accomplishments.
Peter
[www.geocities.com]
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