1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
Stanley Exhaust Hose
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2004 06:50AM
<HTML>What material are people using these days for the flexible exhaust steam hose from engine to chassis in Stanleys? I have read that in the old days it was old-fashioned cotton-reinforced rubber radiator hose and that if not replaced now and then, this would harden/rot after some years and break. Do modern hose materials last longer?
Peter</HTML>
Peter</HTML>
Re: Stanley Exhaust Hose
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2004 02:11PM
<HTML>Dear Peter, Todays car radiator hoses work very well and even probably better than what the Stanleys used duing their years of production for steam exhaust hoses. Both on condensing and non condensing cars, radiator hoses stand up well.</HTML>
Re: Stanley Exhaust Hose
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2004 10:11PM
<HTML>Thanks Pat; just looking for ideas & experience on this item as I am blueprinting a somewhat similar engine and just worked out the exhaust plumbing. I figured radiator hose would be OK since the exhaust steam temp is not much higher than IC coolant, and the peak pressure is comparable. Looks like a quick trip to the car parts place is all that is needed.
Peter</HTML>
Peter</HTML>
Re: Stanley Exhaust Hose
Posted by: David Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: December 29, 2004 11:31AM
<HTML>I have been using radiator hose on my car for years. The length nearest the engine has a short life. It sees the hottest steam, which is full of oil (radiator hose rubber is NOT oil resistant), and gets the most flexing. It is wise to replace it every year, although it will usually last longer. The lengths used between the feed water heater and the condensor don't get much flexing, and have lasted twenty years.</HTML>
Re: Stanley Exhaust Hose
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: December 30, 2004 11:08AM
<HTML>Thanks David. On second thought, McMaster lists reinforced blue silicone rubber engine coolant hose, oil-resistant, various sizes, ~150 psi in steam car exhaust sizes, good to 350°F. "Better steaming through chemistry"?
Peter</HTML>
Peter</HTML>
Re: Stanley Exhaust Hose
Posted by: David Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: January 02, 2005 12:37PM
<HTML>Peter, the blue hose may be worth an experiment. What does it cost, relative to ordinary radiator hose? I bought a three foot length for a few dollars nearly a decade ago, and as each joint in my system is only 3-4 inches long, I still have some left under my front seat. Most of the exhaust system is 1 1/2 inch DWV (drain) copper.</HTML>
Re: Stanley Exhaust Hose
Posted by: Bruce Waterworth (IP Logged)
Date: January 02, 2005 05:16PM
<HTML> I am useing wire reinforced marine exhaust hose, its pretty rugged. available from Jamestown Distributors in R.I. [WWW.JAMESTOWNDISTRIBUTORS.COM] They also stock lots of other good stuff for putting Stanleys back together !!
Happy New Year Bruce.</HTML>
Happy New Year Bruce.</HTML>
Re: Stanley Exhaust Hose
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: January 03, 2005 03:03AM
<HTML>Hi David,
It does sound worth a try, to see if it lasts longer than std radiator hose & cuts maintenance work enough to be worthwhile.
The latest paper McMaster catalog I have is #105, which is the 1999 issue. Current prices on the steam-related stuff I've been ordering lately are ~10% higher than those given in Catalog 105. Haven't ordered any blue hose yet as I'm nowhere near that stage. You can input the old part numbers at [www.mcmaster.com] and they'll automatically substitute equivalent current P/N if it has changed, along with current price. I love their online ordering system. You can also browse their great online catalog (.pdf format). They may now have even better tubing.
P. 120 of Catalog 105:
"Silicone Rubber Coolant Hose. Designed for coolant systems and other heavy-duty, high-temperature applications. Meets requirements of SAE20R1, Class A for high-temperature silicone hose. We sell this hose in 3-ft. and 12-ft. lengths.
"Construction and Specifications -- Tube and Cover: Blue silicone elastomer; resists engine-coolant additives, lubricating oils, and abrasives. Wall thickness is 0.140" minimum: 0.190" maximum. Reinforcement: 3-ply, silicone-coated woven polyester fabric. Temperature Range: -65°F to +350°F."
David, what is the OD of your exhaust fittings? I don't have any 1 1/2 copper drain fittings around to measure, just 1" nominal water supply stuff for my exhaust line (small engine, ~10hp Stanley equiv). Here are a few sizes that are probably close for your engine and larger:
ID 1 3/8" - OD 1 45/64" - 133 psi - p/n 5296k36 (3 ft), $37.60 (1999 prices)
ID 1 1/2" - OD 1 53/64" - 125 psi - p/n 5296k37 (3 ft), $38.07
ID 1 3/4" - OD 2 5/64" - 100 psi - p/n 5296k38 (3 ft), $42.36
ID 2" - OD 2 21/64" - 83 psi - p/n 5296k39 (3 ft), $49.09
Due to its much higher cost, this tubing (if it lasts longer) is probably best just for the short flex section right at the engine, unless one wants to go really deluxe. If std radiator hose downline from FWH lasts 20+ years, then that's fine for there.
Peter</HTML>
It does sound worth a try, to see if it lasts longer than std radiator hose & cuts maintenance work enough to be worthwhile.
The latest paper McMaster catalog I have is #105, which is the 1999 issue. Current prices on the steam-related stuff I've been ordering lately are ~10% higher than those given in Catalog 105. Haven't ordered any blue hose yet as I'm nowhere near that stage. You can input the old part numbers at [www.mcmaster.com] and they'll automatically substitute equivalent current P/N if it has changed, along with current price. I love their online ordering system. You can also browse their great online catalog (.pdf format). They may now have even better tubing.
P. 120 of Catalog 105:
"Silicone Rubber Coolant Hose. Designed for coolant systems and other heavy-duty, high-temperature applications. Meets requirements of SAE20R1, Class A for high-temperature silicone hose. We sell this hose in 3-ft. and 12-ft. lengths.
"Construction and Specifications -- Tube and Cover: Blue silicone elastomer; resists engine-coolant additives, lubricating oils, and abrasives. Wall thickness is 0.140" minimum: 0.190" maximum. Reinforcement: 3-ply, silicone-coated woven polyester fabric. Temperature Range: -65°F to +350°F."
David, what is the OD of your exhaust fittings? I don't have any 1 1/2 copper drain fittings around to measure, just 1" nominal water supply stuff for my exhaust line (small engine, ~10hp Stanley equiv). Here are a few sizes that are probably close for your engine and larger:
ID 1 3/8" - OD 1 45/64" - 133 psi - p/n 5296k36 (3 ft), $37.60 (1999 prices)
ID 1 1/2" - OD 1 53/64" - 125 psi - p/n 5296k37 (3 ft), $38.07
ID 1 3/4" - OD 2 5/64" - 100 psi - p/n 5296k38 (3 ft), $42.36
ID 2" - OD 2 21/64" - 83 psi - p/n 5296k39 (3 ft), $49.09
Due to its much higher cost, this tubing (if it lasts longer) is probably best just for the short flex section right at the engine, unless one wants to go really deluxe. If std radiator hose downline from FWH lasts 20+ years, then that's fine for there.
Peter</HTML>
Re: Stanley Exhaust Hose
Posted by: David Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: January 09, 2005 12:14PM
<HTML>1 1/2 DWV copper has an outside diameter of 1 5/8, so I get 1 5/8 hose, in 3 foot lengths, about $5 from a local auto shop (when I last got one). Remember that I use an oil separator, which may explain why some of the hose has lasted. The only piece that I have to replace annually is that at the engine. It not only gets the hottest, oiliest steam but the most motion. And the motion is mostly twisting as the engine moves with bumps in the road.
By the way, I have learned the hard way not to use lead solder on the copper fittings. An elbow blew off in the middle of the George Washington Bridge, the car sounded like a Maxim machine gun as I approached the toll booth! Now, all fittings up to the feed water heater are silver soldered.
Steam hot enough to melt solder is one reason that bit of hose won't last long!</HTML>
By the way, I have learned the hard way not to use lead solder on the copper fittings. An elbow blew off in the middle of the George Washington Bridge, the car sounded like a Maxim machine gun as I approached the toll booth! Now, all fittings up to the feed water heater are silver soldered.
Steam hot enough to melt solder is one reason that bit of hose won't last long!</HTML>
Re: Stanley Exhaust Hose
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: January 10, 2005 07:12AM
<HTML>Doesn't lead solder melt somewhere around 500°F? Whew, that is some hot exhaust! Silver solder better, no solder best (if possible). Right, your oil separator sounds excellent. Separator is a must; working on one, cyclone type with mesh wiper around the wall, part of FWH. My goal = _slight_ trace of oil in tank and boiler, not 100% oil-free or gobs of oil or foam. I've read about those exhaust hoses blowing -- usually on acceleration & reportedly quite a pop! McMaster didn't list any blue hose between 1.5 & 1.75" ID, wonder if the 1.5" hose will stretch to fit your copper fittings? Eyeballing it, I've seen hose barbs that looked like 1/16 or more deeper than the hose radius. Or add (solder?) copper sleeves (~14 ga B&S) on fittings to allow use of 1.75" hose. I've considered a reinforcing wrap of wire or screen on flex hose, as long as it doesn't cut the flex too much. There are various hoses with stainless wire braid outside, wonder about their temp rating & flexibility (& oil resistance). Earle's Supply used to have a wide assortment for racers and hot rodders, haven't seen an ad in years and don't know if they are still in business.</HTML>
Re: Stanley Exhaust Hose
Posted by: David Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: January 12, 2005 01:43PM
<HTML>The melting points of tin-lead solders are in the 365-400 deg F. range. But their strength is quite low at any temp. over 300. My exhaust steam was in the 300-350 region.
Peter, the separator you suggest will stop large drops of oil, but probably let more than ten percent through. I prefer a filter type using expanded aluminum mesh air filter elements, have had one on the car for thirty years. I doesn't stop it all, but stops enough that the outlet side of the galvanized can it is made in is starting to rust!</HTML>
Peter, the separator you suggest will stop large drops of oil, but probably let more than ten percent through. I prefer a filter type using expanded aluminum mesh air filter elements, have had one on the car for thirty years. I doesn't stop it all, but stops enough that the outlet side of the galvanized can it is made in is starting to rust!</HTML>
Re: Stanley Exhaust Hose
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: January 25, 2005 09:02AM
<HTML>Hi David,
Sounds like your separator really does the job! I should have said silver solder, but thanks for the tin/lead numbers. Lead solders are no longer Code for household plumbing in CA -- just used silver solder for a new water heater, and it's pretty easy to work with. This thread led to a new oil separator design, with a 12 foot mesh-lined spiral labyrinth & relatively light/compact/easy construction, looks worth a try when I get there, to see if/how it works. No flow restriction at least. Way too heavy (cast iron & high pressure rated) commercial steam/oil separators listed at mcmaster and some other suppliers are often described as having labyrinth innards, & some claim (there's that word again) 99% separation rates, though with much different pressures/flow velocities from steam car exhaust.
Peter</HTML>
Sounds like your separator really does the job! I should have said silver solder, but thanks for the tin/lead numbers. Lead solders are no longer Code for household plumbing in CA -- just used silver solder for a new water heater, and it's pretty easy to work with. This thread led to a new oil separator design, with a 12 foot mesh-lined spiral labyrinth & relatively light/compact/easy construction, looks worth a try when I get there, to see if/how it works. No flow restriction at least. Way too heavy (cast iron & high pressure rated) commercial steam/oil separators listed at mcmaster and some other suppliers are often described as having labyrinth innards, & some claim (there's that word again) 99% separation rates, though with much different pressures/flow velocities from steam car exhaust.
Peter</HTML>
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