1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
Stuck Stanley
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: March 29, 2005 01:05AM
<HTML>Hi,
I was wondering if anyone out there has a good way to free up the engine of a stanley (740). Seems the car has been sitting a couple of years and now is frozen in place. It was free before so there should be nothing wrong with it just a bit of rust in the cylinders. We have tried pushing it back and forth to no avail. I thought perhaps if we fired it up a bit with the steam chest drain opened that the heat would help free it up? Would this cause any harm? Anyway, thanks a lot. Eric</HTML>
I was wondering if anyone out there has a good way to free up the engine of a stanley (740). Seems the car has been sitting a couple of years and now is frozen in place. It was free before so there should be nothing wrong with it just a bit of rust in the cylinders. We have tried pushing it back and forth to no avail. I thought perhaps if we fired it up a bit with the steam chest drain opened that the heat would help free it up? Would this cause any harm? Anyway, thanks a lot. Eric</HTML>
Re: Stuck Stanley
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: March 29, 2005 05:17AM
<HTML>Dear Eric, First, make sure that you are fixing the right thing. Jack up the rear axle and make sure that the brakes are not rusted solid by turning one wheel. The other wheel should be turning the opposite direction through the spider gears (if the brakes are not stuck). Running steam through the steam chest should help a lot to loosen any rust. All that should be holding it tight is that the rings are rusted to the cylinder walls. Just for the curiosity of it, try draining water off the bottom of the crank case. Hopefully you should get but just a few table spoons full. If you drain off a gallon, then you might have problems in your bearings too. Your rocking the car back and forth is a good plan. It usually will get a stuck engine loose. Don't get too radical or you might end up breaking some piston rings. A gentle back and forth rocking should eventually bring good results. If after steaming the engine and if it is still stuck good, from the steam inlet, fill the engine with kerosene or any other good penetrant and let it sit for a couple of days. Then go for the rocking again. When it breaks free, remember to bleed the penetrant off slowly because if you were to tow it with a car, you could blow a head if that cylinder was full of a fluid. Here is a question. In over twenty years of steaming, I have never had any of my Stanley engines get stuck. I have always used a good steam cylinder oil and that seems to be my insurance policy of them not sticking. Could it be that your oiler is not oiling enough, or that you are not using the right steam cylinder oil? Did you get your new boiler installed and ready to go yet?</HTML>
Re: Stuck Stanley
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: March 29, 2005 03:58PM
<HTML>Hi Pat,
Thanks for the advice, I think we will try jacking it up to make sure it is not the brakes, that possibility had not even occured to me. We also filled things up with kerosene a few months ago but things are still frozen solid. The car is Bob's 740 not my 735. His engine has a couple of capped tubes on the top of the valve chest that we could un-cap and pour the kerosene into. If it turns out not to be the brakes we might try and get some steam generated and see if that helps.
Thanks again for your advice. My car is almost back together again. Bob had all the tools and knowledge that was needed to get my new superheater bent. It is now in place with new lines all the way from the top of the boiler to the engine. It was a bit of a challenge to get the burner back in place, had to enlarge some holes and close up others due to slight variations in the new piping. Also my burner just seems to be a bit small, something I had not noticed before. The burner plate itself is about 21" in diameter and the boiler is 24". I ended up flareing out the top edges some so as not to cover up some of the tubes. I will have to look at the empire burner on Bob's car and see if it is the same size. Now I just have to work out all the exhaust issues (adding a feed water heater and an oil seperator. Also thinking about switching to that synthetic oil (mobil sch 634 gear oil) that the folks in the NE have had good results with. I want to keep the insides of that new boiler as clean as possible.
I know we will not be having an official regional meeting at the swap meet this year but are there any plans for an informal get together?</HTML>
Thanks for the advice, I think we will try jacking it up to make sure it is not the brakes, that possibility had not even occured to me. We also filled things up with kerosene a few months ago but things are still frozen solid. The car is Bob's 740 not my 735. His engine has a couple of capped tubes on the top of the valve chest that we could un-cap and pour the kerosene into. If it turns out not to be the brakes we might try and get some steam generated and see if that helps.
Thanks again for your advice. My car is almost back together again. Bob had all the tools and knowledge that was needed to get my new superheater bent. It is now in place with new lines all the way from the top of the boiler to the engine. It was a bit of a challenge to get the burner back in place, had to enlarge some holes and close up others due to slight variations in the new piping. Also my burner just seems to be a bit small, something I had not noticed before. The burner plate itself is about 21" in diameter and the boiler is 24". I ended up flareing out the top edges some so as not to cover up some of the tubes. I will have to look at the empire burner on Bob's car and see if it is the same size. Now I just have to work out all the exhaust issues (adding a feed water heater and an oil seperator. Also thinking about switching to that synthetic oil (mobil sch 634 gear oil) that the folks in the NE have had good results with. I want to keep the insides of that new boiler as clean as possible.
I know we will not be having an official regional meeting at the swap meet this year but are there any plans for an informal get together?</HTML>
Re: Stuck Stanley
Posted by: Ben in Maine (IP Logged)
Date: March 29, 2005 04:26PM
<HTML>Hi,,You will be suprised what hot steam and 600# can do for a stuck engine,,dont forget that w/ pressure on the steam chest ,the revere pedal will lock and not move,,close throttle and open chest drip to go other way,, You knew that,,but others dont,,or forgot,,,,Friend tells of dragging a Stanley on the trailer,,,stuck engine,,,when they came to take it off it was free,,,seems the slack in the chain had allowd enough rock to josstle it free,,,On the steam heat,,I got a Panhard-Levassor Knight free by steaming the cylenders for 5 hours w/ my 735 and gentile rocking,,didn't want to dammage the sleeve cranks,,good way to do it,,plus the neighbors really enjoyed the show,,Stanley w/ 1 wheel up to pump water and fuel,,blowing steam from the top of the condensr,,you'd really think we knew what we were'e doi'n,,Will hire out for local work,,,,,,,,and play, play,,play , Does annyone have ideas on putti'n a player in a HArpsichord,,,Hope spring comes soon, ,, ,,, ,,,, , ,,,, ,,, ,, ! :: ::==---]] [! ;o] Ben</HTML>
Re: Stuck Stanley
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: March 29, 2005 04:44PM
<HTML>Dear Eric, For this year's Portland Swap meet, there isn't any reason for SACANW members not to get together and do something together informally. If you can do it, go for it. Be looking for a new SACANW president too. At our July steam clinic, Myles Twete will be retired and we will need a replacement. How does President Eric Gleason sound? It works for me. It is good to hear that your Stanley is going back together again. The ability of your Stanley to steam is primarily limited to evaporization area of the boiler and the rate of burn of your burner. It sounds like your small burner is presently the limiting factor to the performance of your Stanley. I highly suggest the 23" Baker burner that Alan Kelso builds to literally get your Stanley up to speed. Four out of five of our Stanleys use his Baker burner. A drilled burner works well too but I detest the drilling out of the burner plate holes every other year. Also, the Baker burner weighs only about half of what the drilled burner does, making it easier to handle when you are laying on your back. Back to the message subject... I too, hope that it is just the roadster's brakes that are stuck. That would make the repair job so much easier.</HTML>
Re: Stuck Stanley
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: March 31, 2005 04:31AM
<HTML>Ben,
Look at "player harpsichords" on the web sites. It has been done, used solenoids to either push up the keys, or as a unit that sits on the keyboard.
Use the thousands of MIDI file piano selctions that are also on the web sites.
I play my Allen theater organ's piano from Ampico and Duo-Art piano roll CD's and it works just fine.
Jim</HTML>
Look at "player harpsichords" on the web sites. It has been done, used solenoids to either push up the keys, or as a unit that sits on the keyboard.
Use the thousands of MIDI file piano selctions that are also on the web sites.
I play my Allen theater organ's piano from Ampico and Duo-Art piano roll CD's and it works just fine.
Jim</HTML>
<b>Re: Stuck Stanley</b>
Posted by: JW (IP Logged)
Date: April 02, 2005 05:43PM
<HTML>Hey Ben - sounds like you found your harpsichord?
JW</HTML>
JW</HTML>
re Eric Hertz Harpsichord
Posted by: Ben in Maine (IP Logged)
Date: April 02, 2005 07:53PM
<HTML>Hi,,,Mr Biggs was responsible for the recent interest in the [32 note- pedal ]Harpsichord,,He commisioned the first 2 built in 300 years,,The one he used for the Columbia recordings is now in the Metropolitan Museum of Art,,,NYC ,,, The one I secured is the one he gave to his protoge' ! Both w/ brilliant , clear , exciting voicing,,I will look for a second instramint to convert to player,,maybee,,At some point I hope to host a concert at Methuen as a tribute to Mr.Biggs being a regular performer there,,My daily driver to Methuen in those days was a '24 Ghost and yes I got a great smile from him when he realized I was a 'regular',,,Same car I parked outside Club 47 where Joan sang before she went professonal,,,and lost that BEAUTIFUL,,,NATURAAL voice,, ,, ,, I like the lite met'L ,, not heavy metal , W 1000 amp boxs What happend to quality sound,,or are the people ear dead as well as brain dead?? Reading the paper lately I think BOTH,,or even worse,,, Yesterday I read Gov't will spend 32 million on atheletes using steroids,,and cut the AIDS budget ,but I hear little on the U N oil deal,,enron, or the other fleese jobs we get, not to mention inadequate intellegence,,I have found the [near] perfect way to watch the evening news,,,Try Richard Zimmerman playing complete works of S Joplin with T-V on channel 6 w/ the audio turned off,,,makes it all much better,,,Cheers Ben Anyone interested in playing concert,,e/m me direct,,cb</HTML>
Re: re Eric Hertz Harpsichord
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: April 03, 2005 04:22PM
<HTML>Ben,
I know, harpsichords are not steam cars.
Please e-mail me directly with your correct e-mail address, I have the old one.
I see we share another passion.
Curious, is that Pedal section a separate set of strings, or a pulldown from the bottom manual? What pitch, 16' or 8'?
Jim</HTML>
I know, harpsichords are not steam cars.
Please e-mail me directly with your correct e-mail address, I have the old one.
I see we share another passion.
Curious, is that Pedal section a separate set of strings, or a pulldown from the bottom manual? What pitch, 16' or 8'?
Jim</HTML>
Re: reStuck Stanley,,
Posted by: Ben in Maine (IP Logged)
Date: April 13, 2005 09:44PM
<HTML>Hi Eric,,,How goes the Stanley,,,Have you made any progress in getting it to turn,,,I hope our collective input was of some assistance,,Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: reStuck Stanley,,
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: April 14, 2005 02:35PM
<HTML>Hi Ben,
Today is the day we try and get it un-stuck, so, with any luck I will be able to report on progress this evening. Thanks again, Eric</HTML>
Today is the day we try and get it un-stuck, so, with any luck I will be able to report on progress this evening. Thanks again, Eric</HTML>
Re: reStuck Stanley,,
Posted by: eric gleason (IP Logged)
Date: April 20, 2005 12:20AM
<HTML>Well,
We spent the day just getting things in order to try and fire it up. Had a mouse nest in the burner, etc., so, will try again soon. Eric</HTML>
We spent the day just getting things in order to try and fire it up. Had a mouse nest in the burner, etc., so, will try again soon. Eric</HTML>
Re: reStuck Stanley,,
Posted by: Ben in Maine (IP Logged)
Date: April 20, 2005 12:55AM
<HTML>Hi Do be careful not to flood the burner,,,The mouse nest will make a good wick,,If you remove the burner you may be able to use a vacuum to remove it,,,Fun and games,,,Good luck,,Ben</HTML>
Re: reStuck Stanley,,
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: May 28, 2005 04:58AM
<HTML>Hi,
Just thought I would report on some progress. Today we got the car fired up. It has a Baker boiler and an empire burner. Had to drop the burner to get the nest out, totally packed the top of the burner. Spent some time cleaning out the slots.
Then today got the pilot to work, the hand fuel pump to work, etc. and fired things up. Got up steam in what seemed like no time at all. Had the throttle open and the drain valve as well. Let things get good and hot, then closed the throttle and pushed the car back and forth. After doing this a couple of times the engine freed up. Pumped a lot of oil into the steam line and off she went. Only ran it on jacks till the boiler water got low, then shut things down when we realized that water was not pumping into the boiler. Then quit for the day. Will have to get those pumps working well before the next time. Nice to get it going again, will have to tinker some more to get everything to work right again and then take it for a spin.
Anyway, thank you all for the helpful advice.
Now I have to get my car going again. Had it out for the first time with the boiler last Sunday. Still have a bit of sorting to do. Just took out the kidney gauge because it was stuck. Thanks to that recent article in the museum newsletter it it now back together and seems to be functioning perfectly. Before the float rod was all gumed up and did not move freely and the magnet at the other end was loose.
Anyway, maybe I will get to putting it back together soon and see about fixing all those little anoying leaks as well.</HTML>
Just thought I would report on some progress. Today we got the car fired up. It has a Baker boiler and an empire burner. Had to drop the burner to get the nest out, totally packed the top of the burner. Spent some time cleaning out the slots.
Then today got the pilot to work, the hand fuel pump to work, etc. and fired things up. Got up steam in what seemed like no time at all. Had the throttle open and the drain valve as well. Let things get good and hot, then closed the throttle and pushed the car back and forth. After doing this a couple of times the engine freed up. Pumped a lot of oil into the steam line and off she went. Only ran it on jacks till the boiler water got low, then shut things down when we realized that water was not pumping into the boiler. Then quit for the day. Will have to get those pumps working well before the next time. Nice to get it going again, will have to tinker some more to get everything to work right again and then take it for a spin.
Anyway, thank you all for the helpful advice.
Now I have to get my car going again. Had it out for the first time with the boiler last Sunday. Still have a bit of sorting to do. Just took out the kidney gauge because it was stuck. Thanks to that recent article in the museum newsletter it it now back together and seems to be functioning perfectly. Before the float rod was all gumed up and did not move freely and the magnet at the other end was loose.
Anyway, maybe I will get to putting it back together soon and see about fixing all those little anoying leaks as well.</HTML>
Re: reStuck Stanley,,
Posted by: Ben in Maine (IP Logged)
Date: May 28, 2005 12:47PM
<HTML>Hi,,,,,,,Up on jacks ?? ,,,jackS Both wheels???? If so,,when the pumps are working,,it puts a drag on the right axle and it stops or slows down,,,HEY remember the pump is on the right axle,,,,so jack the right side only,,, If this is not the problem,,,continue,,,Cheers Ben</HTML>
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