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Elliptical Rotary Engine
Posted by: Brian Drake (IP Logged)
Date: April 16, 2005 06:21AM
<HTML>Okay, I thoughtI'd heard of all the little oddball steam engine designs in the world, but I stumbled across this ebay auction which near the bottom of the page has an ad for a book with the following description
Quote:Googling yields either nothing, or links to sites selling copies of the book, but nothing useful as to what the hell the damn thing is and why it never caught on. So, anyone know?</HTML>Robert Scott Burns, in his 1854 book "The Steam Engine" describes a rotary engine with an elliptical bore. This engine had a rotor of fixed length that rotated on an offset power shaft and contacted the elliptical bore in all positions. This original engine had a cylinder 24" long with an elliptical bore of 20.12" by 18.62". It was said to have an output of 30 horsepower at 32psi of steam. The model described here is based on the original but is not identical in details.
Re: Elliptical Rotary Engine
Posted by: Brian Drake (IP Logged)
Date: April 16, 2005 06:27AM
<HTML>Dang, I'm not sure what happened there, I kept having problems with the board taking my post, and I got the link screwed up for the ebay auction which inspired it. Here's the address: [cgi.ebay.com];
Re: Elliptical Rotary Engine
Posted by: Ben in Maine (IP Logged)
Date: April 16, 2005 11:05AM
<HTML>Hi,,,The British,,around 1924 decided a round cylender bore would not accept the largest valves,,so they made a cylender with half a 2'' circle left and right and 2 lines ,say 2''spacing them apart ,,, this to accomodate two 2'' valves, w/ little left over space,,I think it was used on a motorcycle about 1924,,,I think Hepolite and Grundage made the piston and rings,,[on a challenge] haha,,, There are countless odball engines that dont work very good,,,There was even one that had a box inside a box,,banging around inside somehow,,,novelty,,but I think only a novelty,,,,Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: Elliptical Rotary Engine
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: April 16, 2005 02:46PM
<HTML>Ben,
Yamaha used an elliptical piston in some race bike engine, so they could cram in five valves. Outlawed in F-1 racing, I think Ferrari was trying it.
That was the DAKE square piston engine, and it was supposed to be widely used in the lumber industry to run hoists.
You can find it in old Audel's books. Fran Duveneck had one and I took it apart and looked at it. Cute and would be Ok as long as you had an unlimited supply of cheap fuel. Must have been a real steam hog.
Same old problem with all these elliptical and such rotary engines, too many leak paths and you cannot seal them. Plus the one huge problem, of a high surface to volume ratio. The one big problem with the Wankel, in spite of it's other good qualities.
Jim</HTML>
Yamaha used an elliptical piston in some race bike engine, so they could cram in five valves. Outlawed in F-1 racing, I think Ferrari was trying it.
That was the DAKE square piston engine, and it was supposed to be widely used in the lumber industry to run hoists.
You can find it in old Audel's books. Fran Duveneck had one and I took it apart and looked at it. Cute and would be Ok as long as you had an unlimited supply of cheap fuel. Must have been a real steam hog.
Same old problem with all these elliptical and such rotary engines, too many leak paths and you cannot seal them. Plus the one huge problem, of a high surface to volume ratio. The one big problem with the Wankel, in spite of it's other good qualities.
Jim</HTML>
Re: Elliptical Rotary Engine
Posted by: Mike Clark (IP Logged)
Date: April 16, 2005 08:40PM
<HTML>Brian,
You got a sensible response to your post here - although not as much fun as the response at the other place!!!
It looks an interesting book.
Mike</HTML>
You got a sensible response to your post here - although not as much fun as the response at the other place!!!
It looks an interesting book.
Mike</HTML>
Re: Elliptical Rotary Engine
Posted by: Ben in Maine (IP Logged)
Date: April 16, 2005 08:51PM
<HTML>AAAha the harmonious chords of playful keen whitted gentry,,at ease with each other and nature,,,, At all times being a gentleman,,will long be rememberd,,,by all ,,, 3 cheers to the group that will long be rememberd long after ,,long,,long after,,, Thank you all kindly,,Coburn Benson ,,still in Maine</HTML>
Re: Elliptical Rotary Engine
Posted by: Brian Drake (IP Logged)
Date: April 16, 2005 11:31PM
<HTML>Well, I never found insult fights to be much fun, even when I was a kid. I do appreciate the responses. May have to play around with one of those when I get all 80 million of my other projects completed. :D</HTML>
Re: Elliptical Rotary Engine
Posted by: Stuart Wilson (IP Logged)
Date: June 24, 2005 09:33AM
<HTML>Hi Brian,
Came across your phorum looking for information about RW Thomson's steam engines. Born in Stonehaven in 1822, he originated the eliptical rotary engine, and patented the first pneumatic tyre, steam powered agricultural ploughs, omnibuses, among other things. The word from my mates is, that his 3 wheeled tractors had 6 foot dia. driving wheels 'which only turned one revolution' in the time the tractor travelled 1 mile. I can't figure this out, but the suggestion is that the unconnected tyres travelled a lot more by some planetary gear system. Sadly, so far I haven't found any technical information on the drive by looking on line.</HTML>
Came across your phorum looking for information about RW Thomson's steam engines. Born in Stonehaven in 1822, he originated the eliptical rotary engine, and patented the first pneumatic tyre, steam powered agricultural ploughs, omnibuses, among other things. The word from my mates is, that his 3 wheeled tractors had 6 foot dia. driving wheels 'which only turned one revolution' in the time the tractor travelled 1 mile. I can't figure this out, but the suggestion is that the unconnected tyres travelled a lot more by some planetary gear system. Sadly, so far I haven't found any technical information on the drive by looking on line.</HTML>
Re: Elliptical Rotary Engine
Posted by: Thomas Commondt (IP Logged)
Date: July 23, 2005 08:34PM
<HTML>Maybe the "elliptical Rotary Engine" has somrthing in common with the "Steam motor" on the pages www.steammotor.com?</HTML>
Re: Elliptical Rotary Engine
Posted by: Thomas Commondt (IP Logged)
Date: July 23, 2005 08:40PM
<HTML>Maybe the "elliptical Rotary Engine" has somthing in common with the "Steam motor" on the pages www.steammotor.com?
<a href="mailto:tuckerfan@comcast.net?subject=Elliptical Rotary Engine">Brian Drake</a> wrote:
>
> Okay, I thoughtI'd heard of all the little oddball
> steam engine designs in the world, but I stumbled across
> this ebay auction which near the bottom of the page has an ad for a book with the following description
<a href="mailto:tuckerfan@comcast.net?subject=Elliptical Rotary Engine">Brian Drake</a> wrote:
>
> Okay, I thoughtI'd heard of all the little oddball
> steam engine designs in the world, but I stumbled across
> this ebay auction which near the bottom of the page has an ad for a book with the following description
Quote:Googling yields either nothing, or links to sites selling copies of the book, but nothing useful as to what the hell the damn thing is and why it never caught on. So, anyone know?</HTML>Robert Scott Burns, in his 1854 book "The Steam Engine" describes a rotary engine with an elliptical bore. This engine had a rotor of fixed length that rotated on an offset power shaft and contacted the elliptical bore in all positions. This original engine had a cylinder 24" long with an elliptical bore of 20.12" by 18.62". It was said to have an output of 30 horsepower at 32psi of steam. The model described here is based on the original but is not identical in details.
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