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Strange Stanley burner experience
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: August 15, 2005 04:51AM
<HTML>I attended the "Oak Harbor Car Show" with a total of 253 cars, Saturday with our 1916 Stanley Mt. Wagon. While at registration, my pilot light accidentally went out and it flooded my Baker burner. I was parked facing up hill and I would guess almost a quart of pilot fuel soaked my burner before I got back to it to turn it off. The burner was drenched. With stored steam, I drove to my display position on the field. All the time, black sooty smoke was now slowly coming out of the open smoke bonnet. I fire was coming from below the burner grate. Eventually after about an hour, the smoke completely stopped. I tried to refire the burner, but the burner plate acted as though it was plugged up with soot and anything that went into the mixing tubes, did a quick reverse and came back out the front. People wanted to ride the Mt. Wagon, so I kept after it to get it to pass fuel. After about 90 minutes of fighting it, I finally got a little fuel to pass the burner grate and to heat the fire tubes. After that, we gave many people rides. It eventually got better until by the time it was ready to go home, it performed perfectly. In fact going home, I raced our Stanley "Bus" against a modern transit bus climbing up a very steep hill that evening. By the time I hit the top, I was about 4 bus lengths ahead of him. We all were smiling. Anyway, has anyone ever expereinced this before? It was like a totally plugged burner grate. By the way, we received the first place trophy in the car show with the Mountain Wagon. Not bad for the first time out.</HTML>
Re: Strange Stanley burner experience
Posted by: Mike Clark (IP Logged)
Date: August 15, 2005 08:56PM
<HTML>Never had that happen!
You were lucky not to have a big flare-up. The only thing I can think is that for whatever reason the pilot fuel was burning with a very restricted air supply which stopped it from flaring up - this would account for it being very sooty and clogging the burner plate. but I can't think how the air could be restricted enough to do this.
Is there any chance that you got a cross over of diesel or diesel mix through the firing up valve into the pilot - that would explain why the pilot went out and possibly why the fuel didn't flare up but just burned quietly on the top of the puddle. That seems the most likely explanation.
Don't do it again!
Mike</HTML>
You were lucky not to have a big flare-up. The only thing I can think is that for whatever reason the pilot fuel was burning with a very restricted air supply which stopped it from flaring up - this would account for it being very sooty and clogging the burner plate. but I can't think how the air could be restricted enough to do this.
Is there any chance that you got a cross over of diesel or diesel mix through the firing up valve into the pilot - that would explain why the pilot went out and possibly why the fuel didn't flare up but just burned quietly on the top of the puddle. That seems the most likely explanation.
Don't do it again!
Mike</HTML>
Re: Strange Stanley burner experience
Posted by: Ben in Maine (IP Logged)
Date: August 15, 2005 11:50PM
<HTML>Hi Pat,,Good to hear you are out and about,,at least,,,,A few questions,,,Do you think the volume of liquid was gas??? My thought is 1 the pilot went out 2 the main valve was on , 3 the pressure droped and the automatic opened the fire valve,,no pilot,,and it flooded everything,,,If the pilot had been the source of fluid, I think the temperature of the casting would have been well above the boiling point of Coleman fuel,,so it would have flared w/ gusto if it was a gasoline fire,,,,, A few more ??? As far as I know the Baker ventouri tube is flared on the end and goes UP, so raw fuel will run back out as vapour goes IN,,,I have got'n 2 qts of fuel out while firing the black car til I made peace with the ole girl,,,Now I can fire on a wood floor w/a pie tin below,,,Just in case,,I have a DRAIN petcock at front and rear of that huge burner,and hope to never need them,,,Use a petcock, as a plug will be useless? when all is hot,,,but a 4'' wrench will turn a hot petcock ,,,Somehow I think if the main valve was on , you would have said so,,So,the questions,,,For the other fellows,,,the Stanley burners are harder to clear,,so great care should be used to avoid this,,HOWEVER,,,,,oh gosh,,,need we go there,,,The problem I have had was that when the casting gets to 750 deg from fire below,,,,its hard to get the fire to stay on top OR there is a lingering flame in there somewhere,,to cause a relite,, Well you did well to handle it so people dont panic when they see smoke,,,,another problem,,,,Alan B had his mountain wagon out yesterday too,,,all went well all had fun,,Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: Strange Stanley burner experience
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: August 16, 2005 10:09AM
<HTML>Fascinating stuff! Ah, the joys (and mysteries) of vaporizing burners. The meet sounds like fun Ben, I _almost_ made it, all neatly arranged (the best laid plans), but "dangerous weather conditions" in Cincinnati Thursday meant a 3-hr detour to Louisville KY for refuel/waiting, & I missed my connecting flight to Manchester. Next flight to NH was late Friday, meaning missing all of Friday at the meet, which is like missing 1/3 of a movie, and there went my other plans too. After 3 hrs in late-nite airport lines (after 7 hrs on plane) that was it, what will they screw up next, I got fed up, demanded a flight home, and they obliged -- the next afternoon! So "My New Hampshire Trip" turned into "My Night In Cincinnati"! Next time I'll go by steam car, couldn't possibly be more unreliable or unpleasant than jets. The only jets I want to mess with from now on, are in a good steam car burner.
Peter</HTML>
Peter</HTML>
Re: Strange Stanley burner experience
Posted by: George (IP Logged)
Date: August 16, 2005 12:19PM
<HTML>Peter,
Sorry you had such flight problems, Manchester airport is real easy in and out, the meet was a great time with lots of food &steam. Tony Gryzb's bike never ran so well, such fun watching him zip up and down the road with the old Grout and 02 Stanley!. Maybe next year.
George</HTML>
Sorry you had such flight problems, Manchester airport is real easy in and out, the meet was a great time with lots of food &steam. Tony Gryzb's bike never ran so well, such fun watching him zip up and down the road with the old Grout and 02 Stanley!. Maybe next year.
George</HTML>
Re: Strange Stanley burner experience
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: August 16, 2005 02:27PM
<HTML>Dear Ben and Mike, I didn't have anything less than pilot fuel running out the Maxwell type pilot. The main was turned tightly off. Maybe I didn't get a full quart of pilot fuel into the burner pan because most of it was running out of the pilot onto the ground when I got back to the car. I did park on quite a steep uphill and that is why there was any fuel at all running back into the burner pan. I never did have the roaring tube fires that one gets when the main fuel is on because the main fuel was never left on. It did take a long time for the sooty smoke to quite coming out of my smoke bonnet. It took it seemed forever (1 hr), for the burner plate to clear it's soot so that the fuel/air mixture could pass through the burner plate again. And all of this time I had a most beautiful, but useless pilot light burning. (no main fuel/air to ignite.) This all was just another new experience for me with a Stanley. A very odd experience at that.</HTML>
Re: Strange Stanley burner experience
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: August 16, 2005 11:50PM
<HTML>Hi George,
Argh, I really missed a good one! Well, I'm glad everyone else had fun! Yes, Manchester was the closest major airport (2 hr drive) and a good one from all accounts -- the problem was _getting_ there! It was the "fight or flight syndrome" -- I put up quite a fight, but couldn't get a flight. So, time to throw in the towel before I strangled somebody with it. Next time for sure. Maybe the trick is to leave a couple extra days in advance, just in case. I'll do that for Berrien Springs, go fishing for a day or two if flights actually land on time. I never had this much trouble/delay with air travel before, weird, hope it wasn't some kind of omen. I suspect occult forces at work. :)
Pat: Any rich smokey fire will generate lots of "lamp black", fast. Under a burner grate, it could clog up .025 slots, .055 holes or what have you PDQ. I have sooted up my Aladdin lamp mantle a few times, then backed off (leaned it out) and watched the soot burn off. Yep, sounds like you were running partly on solid fuel for a while; not many Stanley drivers have done that!
Peter</HTML>
Argh, I really missed a good one! Well, I'm glad everyone else had fun! Yes, Manchester was the closest major airport (2 hr drive) and a good one from all accounts -- the problem was _getting_ there! It was the "fight or flight syndrome" -- I put up quite a fight, but couldn't get a flight. So, time to throw in the towel before I strangled somebody with it. Next time for sure. Maybe the trick is to leave a couple extra days in advance, just in case. I'll do that for Berrien Springs, go fishing for a day or two if flights actually land on time. I never had this much trouble/delay with air travel before, weird, hope it wasn't some kind of omen. I suspect occult forces at work. :)
Pat: Any rich smokey fire will generate lots of "lamp black", fast. Under a burner grate, it could clog up .025 slots, .055 holes or what have you PDQ. I have sooted up my Aladdin lamp mantle a few times, then backed off (leaned it out) and watched the soot burn off. Yep, sounds like you were running partly on solid fuel for a while; not many Stanley drivers have done that!
Peter</HTML>
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