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Tesla Turbines
Posted by: chris thomas (IP Logged)
Date: August 16, 2005 09:15PM
<HTML>I was doing some reading on the steam powered british car. They're hoping to break 200mph. They're using a turbine as the main power source. Does anyone know if this is a standard turbine or a tesla turbine?
Also is there any piston steam engine being used to break the 200mph record?</HTML>
Also is there any piston steam engine being used to break the 200mph record?</HTML>
Re: Tesla Turbines
Posted by: john fehn (IP Logged)
Date: August 18, 2005 08:53AM
<HTML>from what i've read, it seems to be the current general consensus that the tesla turbine is so inefficient as to be essentially useless at powering anything.</HTML>
Re: Tesla Turbines
Posted by: George (IP Logged)
Date: August 18, 2005 06:42PM
<HTML> Once again we talk on a thread about the Tesla turbine! Back then an independent consulting engineer did three tests on tesla turbines at a big NYC Edison station and believe the most efficient had a steam rate of 36#/HPHR.
Considering it was using low pressure near saturated steam this was not so bad for a small single stage turbine, especially back then. A stanley in short cutoff with highly superheated steam uses 20-22#/HPHR. Tesla had talked about compounding the turbine but one was never built. I would believe a turbine in a steam car would be most wasteful, any turbine uses huge quantities of steam getting up to design speed. Tesla had originally desired a tip velocity of 1000FPS but had to back down to 700FPS due to material limitations and this alone greatly reduced its efficiency.
Best, George</HTML>
Considering it was using low pressure near saturated steam this was not so bad for a small single stage turbine, especially back then. A stanley in short cutoff with highly superheated steam uses 20-22#/HPHR. Tesla had talked about compounding the turbine but one was never built. I would believe a turbine in a steam car would be most wasteful, any turbine uses huge quantities of steam getting up to design speed. Tesla had originally desired a tip velocity of 1000FPS but had to back down to 700FPS due to material limitations and this alone greatly reduced its efficiency.
Best, George</HTML>
Re: Tesla Turbines
Posted by: Andy Patterson (IP Logged)
Date: August 18, 2005 08:35PM
<HTML>Hi George
I'm not all that interested in tesla turbines. But was curious. I found very little info on his steam version. From the clames made on several web sites thay admit or use as an excuse that the info was lost.
Is that the real story? You gave some steam rates. Were thoes for an actual Tesla built turbine or some recient version?
What little I have done seams to point that it works great with water. The ??(adhearing) force between the disks and working fluid are much stronger with liquids.
I am curious if a steam ejector type of aperatus could be used in tesla turbines. The ejector would pickup water and accelerate it into the disks. The turbine woukld be a water turbine powered by steam.
It might the ideal condensor. The steam would condense in the ejector as it accelerated the water. A normal car radiator could then be used to cool the water. Have ti keep below saturation temp.
Some questions:
How efficient can an ejector be.
How would one figure the theoritical efficieny of such a device?</HTML>
I'm not all that interested in tesla turbines. But was curious. I found very little info on his steam version. From the clames made on several web sites thay admit or use as an excuse that the info was lost.
Is that the real story? You gave some steam rates. Were thoes for an actual Tesla built turbine or some recient version?
What little I have done seams to point that it works great with water. The ??(adhearing) force between the disks and working fluid are much stronger with liquids.
I am curious if a steam ejector type of aperatus could be used in tesla turbines. The ejector would pickup water and accelerate it into the disks. The turbine woukld be a water turbine powered by steam.
It might the ideal condensor. The steam would condense in the ejector as it accelerated the water. A normal car radiator could then be used to cool the water. Have ti keep below saturation temp.
Some questions:
How efficient can an ejector be.
How would one figure the theoritical efficieny of such a device?</HTML>
Tesla turbine Patents
Posted by: chris thomas (IP Logged)
Date: August 18, 2005 09:23PM
<HTML>Here is a list of patents.
[keelynet.com]
[keelynet.com]
[keelynet.com]
[keelynet.com]
The problem with his turbines was the inability of german silver to stand up to the high rotational speeds for long periods of time.
Inconel and some other alloys are more than capable of handling the tangential stress.
The british steam car is using a turbine, but it is a regular bladed turbine. It may be good for breaking land speed records but probably not for regular driving.
This is one of the better sites on the TBT: [www.frank.germano.com]
A tesla turbine can use wet steam, air, water, hydraulic fluid, pretty much anything. And at 25hp to 50hp per 1-lb of working material, it seems perfect for a light-weight automobile engine.
Just wondering if anyone is using it yet.</HTML>
[keelynet.com]
[keelynet.com]
[keelynet.com]
[keelynet.com]
The problem with his turbines was the inability of german silver to stand up to the high rotational speeds for long periods of time.
Inconel and some other alloys are more than capable of handling the tangential stress.
The british steam car is using a turbine, but it is a regular bladed turbine. It may be good for breaking land speed records but probably not for regular driving.
This is one of the better sites on the TBT: [www.frank.germano.com]
A tesla turbine can use wet steam, air, water, hydraulic fluid, pretty much anything. And at 25hp to 50hp per 1-lb of working material, it seems perfect for a light-weight automobile engine.
Just wondering if anyone is using it yet.</HTML>
Re: Tesla turbine Patents
Posted by: George (IP Logged)
Date: August 18, 2005 10:24PM
<HTML>Andy and Chris,
The tests were done almost a century ago and are accurately published in one of the recent Tesla books(yes Chris they used german silver/cupro-nickel for the blades back then) I used to belong to the TEBA society where there is a lot of modern development on the bladless turbine as a gas turbine. JABSCO pumps make millions of bladless pumps with this system and claim higher efficiency than standard centrifugal pumps. Unfortunately the Tesla turbine works better with saturated steam as it gives it more laminar viscious shear, maybe make a good inexpensive exhaust turbine! Chris thanks for the website.
George</HTML>
The tests were done almost a century ago and are accurately published in one of the recent Tesla books(yes Chris they used german silver/cupro-nickel for the blades back then) I used to belong to the TEBA society where there is a lot of modern development on the bladless turbine as a gas turbine. JABSCO pumps make millions of bladless pumps with this system and claim higher efficiency than standard centrifugal pumps. Unfortunately the Tesla turbine works better with saturated steam as it gives it more laminar viscious shear, maybe make a good inexpensive exhaust turbine! Chris thanks for the website.
George</HTML>
Re: Tesla turbine Patents
Posted by: chris thomas (IP Logged)
Date: August 18, 2005 10:36PM
<HTML>George,
Thanks for the information. Sounds like dry compressed air premixed with water might work. I have hear they are using it more for geothermal.
What about piston steam engines that are being used now? Are they comparable to IC engines or still falling behind?</HTML>
Thanks for the information. Sounds like dry compressed air premixed with water might work. I have hear they are using it more for geothermal.
What about piston steam engines that are being used now? Are they comparable to IC engines or still falling behind?</HTML>
Re: Tesla turbine Patents
Posted by: Steve Redmnd (IP Logged)
Date: February 06, 2006 01:36AM
<HTML>I've noticed several references to Tesla style disk turbines here and on another thread. Repeating that here as more appropriate in case anyone else is interested.
I'm no apologist for them, but I did build one, (www.sredmond.com) and am interested in powering it with steam. I did try a rudimentary monotube boiler, but got very wet and poorly controlled steam. To answer one question posed in this thread, no, I doubt Tesla was powering with water propelled by steam! I got about 10,000 RPM on 70 pounds of compressed air. But zilch on condensing steam (naturally).
Like I said, my flash boiler was a pretty poor attempt, but I believe now I could do a lot better. My turbine's casing is also pretty heavy aluminum, and therefore basically a big heat sink, the opposite of a lagged steam cylinder, so maybe some of the condensation could be attributed to that. I definitely need hotter stuff.
I'd like to hear from someone with experience about building a workable small monotube steam generator.
I do have the book "Experimental Flash Steam" (1973, British) and the Westbury's book on the Gemini flash plant.
I'm not a turbine fanatic -- I own two model custom built flash steam twin cylinder inline piston racing engines, and have made patterns for another one, which I cast this winter.
Would be interested in hearing from anyone with monotube advice.
--Steve Redmond
www.sredmond.com</HTML>
I'm no apologist for them, but I did build one, (www.sredmond.com) and am interested in powering it with steam. I did try a rudimentary monotube boiler, but got very wet and poorly controlled steam. To answer one question posed in this thread, no, I doubt Tesla was powering with water propelled by steam! I got about 10,000 RPM on 70 pounds of compressed air. But zilch on condensing steam (naturally).
Like I said, my flash boiler was a pretty poor attempt, but I believe now I could do a lot better. My turbine's casing is also pretty heavy aluminum, and therefore basically a big heat sink, the opposite of a lagged steam cylinder, so maybe some of the condensation could be attributed to that. I definitely need hotter stuff.
I'd like to hear from someone with experience about building a workable small monotube steam generator.
I do have the book "Experimental Flash Steam" (1973, British) and the Westbury's book on the Gemini flash plant.
I'm not a turbine fanatic -- I own two model custom built flash steam twin cylinder inline piston racing engines, and have made patterns for another one, which I cast this winter.
Would be interested in hearing from anyone with monotube advice.
--Steve Redmond
www.sredmond.com</HTML>
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