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Brake linings for Stanley 735B
Posted by: Howard Randall (IP Logged)
Date: September 16, 2005 01:23PM
<HTML> I need to reline the mechanical brakes (no plan to convert to juice) on my 1920 Stanley, 735B. " Green Grabber" lining has been discussed on this forum before. Is this the best for this application, or are there other likely candidates? Who sells "Green Grabber?" Thanks for any help.</HTML>
Re: Brake linings for Stanley 735B
Posted by: allen blazick (IP Logged)
Date: January 14, 2006 12:09AM
<HTML>Howard, try Star Brake in Concord NH. He has old bronze woven lining still. Allen</HTML>
Re: Brake linings for Stanley 735B
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: April 21, 2009 03:41AM
An interesting point about bonding the lining to the shoes on the Stanley brakes: I have been told that the bonding glue acts as insullation and the lining won't cool as effectively as it could have it it was rivited with rivits. Any more thoughts on this one? After a couple glue failures, I am only riviting my lining for my brakes now.
Re: Brake linings for Stanley 735B
Posted by: Rolly (IP Logged)
Date: April 21, 2009 12:32PM
Pat I think it’s a myth.
I would rivet when used on a band around the outside of a drum, they tend to be very flexible, ridge inside shoes on the other hand I feel comfortable with bonding.
Most break lining is highly heat resistance. Like Asbestos, you can put a torch to one side and not feel the heat on the other. Break lining acts like insulation. Non-asbestos linings are reinforced with fine gauge brass wire, cured and bonded with heat resistant binder under high pressure impregnated for thorough saturation with an oleoresinous compounds. (Organic resins)
All brakes fade when they get hot. A good brake has a predictable fade and a good recovery after cooling down. Non-asbestos will begin to fade at about 359 degrees F; asbestos would hang in until about 450 degrees F. Non-asbestos has a gradual fade just like asbestos, warning you to cool down your brake. Many non-asbestos lining hang in a little longer then, suddenly nothing, no warning, no brake.
Most break Epoxy Adhesive bounding material are excellent up to 500F and have a Tensile strength in excess of 3000 pounds per square inch when properly used.
That Green Grabber that Howard used wont wear out. It wears out the drum. You need a good supply of drums if you use that stuff.
Rolly
I would rivet when used on a band around the outside of a drum, they tend to be very flexible, ridge inside shoes on the other hand I feel comfortable with bonding.
Most break lining is highly heat resistance. Like Asbestos, you can put a torch to one side and not feel the heat on the other. Break lining acts like insulation. Non-asbestos linings are reinforced with fine gauge brass wire, cured and bonded with heat resistant binder under high pressure impregnated for thorough saturation with an oleoresinous compounds. (Organic resins)
All brakes fade when they get hot. A good brake has a predictable fade and a good recovery after cooling down. Non-asbestos will begin to fade at about 359 degrees F; asbestos would hang in until about 450 degrees F. Non-asbestos has a gradual fade just like asbestos, warning you to cool down your brake. Many non-asbestos lining hang in a little longer then, suddenly nothing, no warning, no brake.
Most break Epoxy Adhesive bounding material are excellent up to 500F and have a Tensile strength in excess of 3000 pounds per square inch when properly used.
That Green Grabber that Howard used wont wear out. It wears out the drum. You need a good supply of drums if you use that stuff.
Rolly
Re: Brake linings for Stanley 735B
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: April 21, 2009 03:43PM
Dear Rolly, I know of 10 different people using the Green Grabber with good results. No bad issues so far. McMaster Carr also sells it without using the Green Grabber name. It has worked well for all of us without any noticable drum wear. Our Mountain Wagon broke an axle last year and upon inspection, after the 3,000 miles traveled, both drums and lining were still like new. Our 1914 Stanley roadster has about 8,000 mile on it's "green " lining and it has been performing well so far. The brass wire in the green lining is to help dissapate the heat build up. I am sure that it helps. The brass wire also adds to the lining's stability when a rivit is set tight against the lining. When there is a brake lining available that will stop better than the "Green Grabber", please post it on this website so that everyone can benefit from it. Drum wear is of little importance, but stopping safely is of the utmost importance.
Re: Brake linings for Stanley 735B
Posted by: Rolly (IP Logged)
Date: April 22, 2009 01:38PM
Non-asbestos break lining is highly heat resistance. The drums and rotors give up the heat when designed correctly.
Brass wire is used as a structural member in the fabrication of the material. The carcass consists of brass wire inserted yarns containing a mixture of organic and inorganic fibers, including Kevlar. The woven tape is vacuum impregnated for thorough saturation with an oleoresinous compound. Long slow curing with alternate rolling and compressing and a final high temperature step cure bonds the material into an extremely dense and strong product. Surfaces are ground to +0.005" of nominal thickness. Some linings have brass chips added to reduce brake squeal.
I use a material from Reddaway Manufacturing Co., Inc. Newark New Jersey
Made for Crane brake drums for wet and oily applications.
Recommended Operating Range: ------------ Should not exceed 500°F
Unit Pressure:---------------------------------------- 200 psi Max.
Friction Level:---------------------------------------- 0.40 Dynamic-0.42 Static
Physical Properties:-------------------------------- Max rubbing speed - 5000 FT/Min.
Tensile Strength 3543 PSI
Federal standard HHL-361 - may be certified TYPE TWO.
They also have the Green Gripper Maybe they should start making Stanley and antique brake drums.
It was there engineer whom told me about how Green Gripper will wear out the drum long before the lining goes, and did nor recomand it for antique cars, as he owned seven.
Rolly
Brass wire is used as a structural member in the fabrication of the material. The carcass consists of brass wire inserted yarns containing a mixture of organic and inorganic fibers, including Kevlar. The woven tape is vacuum impregnated for thorough saturation with an oleoresinous compound. Long slow curing with alternate rolling and compressing and a final high temperature step cure bonds the material into an extremely dense and strong product. Surfaces are ground to +0.005" of nominal thickness. Some linings have brass chips added to reduce brake squeal.
I use a material from Reddaway Manufacturing Co., Inc. Newark New Jersey
Made for Crane brake drums for wet and oily applications.
Recommended Operating Range: ------------ Should not exceed 500°F
Unit Pressure:---------------------------------------- 200 psi Max.
Friction Level:---------------------------------------- 0.40 Dynamic-0.42 Static
Physical Properties:-------------------------------- Max rubbing speed - 5000 FT/Min.
Tensile Strength 3543 PSI
Federal standard HHL-361 - may be certified TYPE TWO.
They also have the Green Gripper Maybe they should start making Stanley and antique brake drums.
It was there engineer whom told me about how Green Gripper will wear out the drum long before the lining goes, and did nor recomand it for antique cars, as he owned seven.
Rolly
Re: Brake linings for Stanley 735B
Posted by: Ben (IP Logged)
Date: April 22, 2009 02:31PM
In TIMES as these,,,Vote for Wilson and Cooledge,,,or is it Taft Teddy/bullmoose,,,anyhow I STILL DONT LIKE JUCE BRAKES,,,,i hope i can get through this,,,It was the first Sat of October,1951,,we assembled at Joe knowles farm in Lincoln ma,,[This was before the VMCCA N-E region was formed],,The purpose was to convoy about 1,5-2 hours n-w to Peterborough,NH,,Major Goyette's annual picnic at Cranbertry acres,,and his birthday party,,Somewhere above Littleton Ma,,one of the cars started to smoke,,we had 15 cars maybee,,problem,,no mirrors and driver couldnt see smoke,,by the time we reached Groton,,people were waving,,big deal,,lead car pulled in just past the ctr,, The #4 car had the left rear wheel on fire,,smoke flames,,the whole works,,in those days fire extingishrs were expensive,,more likely to pour the coffe from the thermos jug,,after that,,what next,,one of the guys decided to donate some used beer to the occasion and then others volenteerd used coffee from the farm,,We all saved the car,,but the spokes were not full srength any longer,,rather like toast,,NOW if that had been juce brakes the fluid would have boiled,,Sure I know brakes run at 500 ??? BBBUT not always,,Accident or not I remember that beautiful saturday in October 1951,,my first solo VMCCA run,in my Packard,,Theres a lot ov heat generated,,,and 2 wheelers have all the heat in 2 drums,,So SO if ya carry a extinguisher,,the fluid wont boil,,Frankly I prefer CRANBERRY juce,,[from the boggs down by Howards place],,servaced by the narrah gage rail,,still,]],!!,,Oh yes,,all 30 of the Majors cars were untouched original,,whose got the Stanley 10 hp???,,Cheers Ben
Re: Brake linings for Stanley 735B
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: February 26, 2011 02:22PM
The Green Grabber brake lining from McMaster Carr quickly wears out leaving only brass wire in contact with the drums. Green Grabber lining works well when new. On my Mt. Wagon, I have now switched to their non metalic lining. I have installed it on my emergency brake, and I will soon see how it works out. Non metallic? They do have flakes of brass in the lining.
Specs for Nonmetallic Molded Strips
surface speed is 4000 fpm
lining pressure is 250 psi
operating temp is 500° F
Coefficent of friction is 0.47
Specs for Nonmetallic Molded Strips
surface speed is 4000 fpm
lining pressure is 250 psi
operating temp is 500° F
Coefficent of friction is 0.47
Re: Brake linings for Stanley 735B
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: October 22, 2013 06:19AM
I always thought that there had to be better brake lining than what I was buying from McMaster - Carr. Brake fade was my biggest problem with their brass impregnated green lining. With the help of an article that I read in the HCCA Gazette, I now have the latest space age perfect lining for our old cars. It doesn't fade like the other linings do, it doesn't squeal and so far it is long lasting. It can be bonded or riveted. Its miracle ingredient is Kevlar. It costs about $20.74 a linear foot. It is called ScanPac GGA, and it can be purchased from The Rowland Company in Philadelphia. Telephone number 215/455-4900. Something else that I did and I got away with is: Last winter I machined up some cast iron brake drums for our 1914 Stanley 606 roadster and I made the drums about 3/16" wider. I am now running brake lining that is also 3/16" wider. That extra width also had to help. On our roadster, I am still using mechanical drum brakes and I am very happy with them.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2013 02:41PM by SSsssteamer.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2013 02:41PM by SSsssteamer.
Re: Brake linings for Stanley 735B
Posted by: Rolly (IP Logged)
Date: October 22, 2013 11:39AM
Good subject Pat
When I went looking for lining for my EX I talked to All Frictions Co Portland Ct
When I told him what I wanted it for he put me in touch with Todd Walker his supplier and president of Redco friction Products Raddaway MFG Co NJ.
Todd also has antique cars. The first question he asked is do you have a good supply of drums. No I said I only made the two. He said you want a lining that will wear out before harming your drums.
Can you give us the supplier of the chrome steel rod you used for your pumps?
Rolly
When I went looking for lining for my EX I talked to All Frictions Co Portland Ct
When I told him what I wanted it for he put me in touch with Todd Walker his supplier and president of Redco friction Products Raddaway MFG Co NJ.
Todd also has antique cars. The first question he asked is do you have a good supply of drums. No I said I only made the two. He said you want a lining that will wear out before harming your drums.
Can you give us the supplier of the chrome steel rod you used for your pumps?
Rolly
Re: Brake linings for Stanley 735B
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: October 22, 2013 02:12PM
For the hard chromed water pump pistons, I purchased the hard chromed rod stock from: [www.alloysandcomponents.com] They were nice to work with, and fast delivery too.
Re: Brake linings for Stanley 735B
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: October 23, 2013 04:23PM
The ScanPac GGA lining is much better at higher temperatures than other brake linings. Where most linings sharply fall off in their braking at anything over 500 degrees F., GGA lining still maintains a good braking coefficient even up past 650 degrees F.. GGA's coeficient of friction stays at about a steady 0.45 with very little drop off at the higher temperatures. From Horseless Carriage: "Even though you might think you would never get to temperatures above 500 degrees, it means only that the lining surface rubbing on the drum is 500 degrees. Not that the entire drum is 500 degrees. That temperature is surprisingly easy to achieve and once you do, the loss of braking can be very scary."
Re: Brake linings for Stanley 735B
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: December 14, 2013 12:32AM
I have been running the GGA brake lining for two months now. The hills that I always feared going down before because by the time I reached the bottom, my brakes had faded away? Since installing the GGA lining, I have been going down them without even thinking about the brake fade or even that I was decending a steep hill. That is because I haven't experienced any brake fade with the new GGA lining as of yet. I now have about 200 miles on my new GGA lining and I find that it has to be the best lining every made for our cars' special needs.
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