1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
Top 10 Books
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: March 28, 2002 03:05PM
<HTML>I was conversing with Gary Hunsaker, and the question of my top 10 books came up. I thought this was a good idea and I would have liked to have seen a list of recomended books before I started collecting. My top 10 list might be ok, but I am new on the steam scene and the vast experience of others would make this a great thread. I know Jim Crank and David Nergaard have extensive collections of paper on the subject, as well as many others, but here it goes. They may not be in any order and the 11th is my alternate and not available any way. I could not find an actual steam engine design book that could hit my top ten, how bout someone else ? I included a little info on why they hit my list.
1) Dobble Steam Cars Buses Lorries & Railcars, The last book written on steam cars and a difinitive work.
2) Steam Its Generation & Use B&W, All the answers are in here but no matter how many times I pound my head against it, I can only absorb a small fraction.
3) Floyd Clymers Steam Car Scrapbook, A great book on the history of steam autos and shows what can be done in a simple fashion.
4) Heat Exchanger Design, There is no better book on the subject, and it includes many actual photos of flow conditions, lots of charts and graphs, and it explains things so even I can understand. A rare book.
5) Steam Generation, Many subjects are given great coverage that are only hinted at in other books.
6) Piping Handbook, Everything you need to know about hands on steam fitting and plumbing.
7) Stormy Genious, The Life of Avations Maverick Bill Lear, An interesting read and good instruction on the steps you should avoid when developing a steam car.
8) Darn, my good pump book is on loan and I can't remember the name of it.
9) Steam Generators, I don't have it yet, its on the way, but it shows most of the steam generator designs that have been tried from simple to wildly creative. A very thought provoking book and quite rare.
10) Oil Burner Handbook, I think that is the name, George Nutz got me confused on this one, so he will have to verify it, but it is the most complete book on the subject, old and new burners are covered in theroy, design and service.
11) Forced Circulation Boilers & Their Application for Marine Purposes: A Paper Read Before the North East Coast Instution of Engineers & Shipbuilders in Newcastle Upon Tyne on Dec 2, 1938, The only book I have found with all the dimensions of a Lamont Boiler installation, It might be the only copy.
Peter Heid</HTML>
1) Dobble Steam Cars Buses Lorries & Railcars, The last book written on steam cars and a difinitive work.
2) Steam Its Generation & Use B&W, All the answers are in here but no matter how many times I pound my head against it, I can only absorb a small fraction.
3) Floyd Clymers Steam Car Scrapbook, A great book on the history of steam autos and shows what can be done in a simple fashion.
4) Heat Exchanger Design, There is no better book on the subject, and it includes many actual photos of flow conditions, lots of charts and graphs, and it explains things so even I can understand. A rare book.
5) Steam Generation, Many subjects are given great coverage that are only hinted at in other books.
6) Piping Handbook, Everything you need to know about hands on steam fitting and plumbing.
7) Stormy Genious, The Life of Avations Maverick Bill Lear, An interesting read and good instruction on the steps you should avoid when developing a steam car.
8) Darn, my good pump book is on loan and I can't remember the name of it.
9) Steam Generators, I don't have it yet, its on the way, but it shows most of the steam generator designs that have been tried from simple to wildly creative. A very thought provoking book and quite rare.
10) Oil Burner Handbook, I think that is the name, George Nutz got me confused on this one, so he will have to verify it, but it is the most complete book on the subject, old and new burners are covered in theroy, design and service.
11) Forced Circulation Boilers & Their Application for Marine Purposes: A Paper Read Before the North East Coast Instution of Engineers & Shipbuilders in Newcastle Upon Tyne on Dec 2, 1938, The only book I have found with all the dimensions of a Lamont Boiler installation, It might be the only copy.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: Top 10 Books
Posted by: George K. Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: March 28, 2002 05:10PM
<HTML>Peter,
One of my all time favorites, an engineering bible, is the book by Lionel Marks called "Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers", the earlier additions(pre-1950 or 1940?) include a great deal of information on theoretical and actual steam engine performance. Also includes just about anything pertaining to stress analysis, fluid flow, boilers etc. If I ever had the nerve to go for my PE exam and they allowed only one book this would be the one--about 4 inches thick.
Best, George</HTML>
One of my all time favorites, an engineering bible, is the book by Lionel Marks called "Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers", the earlier additions(pre-1950 or 1940?) include a great deal of information on theoretical and actual steam engine performance. Also includes just about anything pertaining to stress analysis, fluid flow, boilers etc. If I ever had the nerve to go for my PE exam and they allowed only one book this would be the one--about 4 inches thick.
Best, George</HTML>
Re: Top 10 Books
Posted by: Garry Hunsaker (IP Logged)
Date: March 28, 2002 07:52PM
<HTML>Thank you Peter and George!; I will definitely check out your recommendations.
It looks like I am headed in the right direction.
I have had Walton's book on Doble since 1975. I have been through it so many times the front hinge is wearing through. (I haven’t had the heart to slap that which binds the universe together, duct tape, on it yet) Still great ideas, and things that make me go hmmm.... My love of this book leaves me chomping at the bit for Jim Crank’s forth coming volumes, with the truth on Doble.
Babcock and Wilcox on 'Steam its Generation' and Use’ from 1955 is great, if you are good with calculators. Even with out a number cruncher, it still has a lot of good ideas. I am not sure when the B&W bible changes, but the later editions lose the preliminary design data, and become sales books for B&W nuclear power plants. Though there was a foray back into coal fired steam cargo vessels around 1976, with a couple of interesting tidbits on marine gravity circulation boiler design in a chapter covering them.
My favorite from the old school of build it like this, because after a hundred years of hit and miss, we figure it wont break, is Lindsay Publications reprint of Joshua Rose’s ‘Modern Steam Engines’ from 1887. Rose’s book has some interesting engravings of various engine designs from that period. A couple of which have left me going, what on earth were they thinking. Rose’s book is a lot of fun, and goes into some serious hand layout of ‘valve motions’, and the Stephenson link motion. Better yet, it is a large format book for those of us whose eyesight has seen better days. www.lindsaybks.com I belive is there web site.
On my not sure list.
(This book hasn’t begun to reach my favorite steam books list as yet) I have copies of ‘Kent’s Mechanical Engineers’ Handbook’, on both Power and Machinery (two separate volumes) from 1937. The interesting thing I note is the 1910 copyright has been renewed by the bank that were the trusties of Kent’s estate, and the following page has a list of ‘collaborators’ on this 11th edition. Apparently the 1915 edition was the last Kent did himself. The chapter on Steam Engines is fairly short, and seems to be given over to guesstimations of indicator cards to come up with MEP. I haven’t yet plowed into the structural design data. There are smidgens of calculus here, which are followed by turn of the century lay outs. In other words, you get several ways to look at the same thing.
On my, its interesting to watch engineering change list is a book that just arrived today. (3/28/02)
‘The Steam Engine’ by A. B. Clemens’ would have been a solid book on steam engine design in about 1890. However, this edition is from 1928. It is published by the International Textbook Company. A fact that if I had known, I would probably would not have bothered with this book. I believe ITC did a bit of correspondence school work back then, and gave you a degree for having taken your money. From other volumes I have seen from ITC, they look like they are knock offs of earlier works whose copyrights have been allowed to lapse. With a couple of minor exceptions, you might as well buy Lindsay Publications reprint of Joshua Rose’s book & Lindsay's Steam-Engine Design from ICS. I think ICS may have been one of ITC's competitors. I personally would not trust any of these books to design a ‘high’ pressure engine based on percentage relationships to cylinder bore and initial pressure. Most of these rules of thumb were arrived at in the days when 150 psi was considered high pressure.
Again guys... Thank You
Garry</HTML>
It looks like I am headed in the right direction.
I have had Walton's book on Doble since 1975. I have been through it so many times the front hinge is wearing through. (I haven’t had the heart to slap that which binds the universe together, duct tape, on it yet) Still great ideas, and things that make me go hmmm.... My love of this book leaves me chomping at the bit for Jim Crank’s forth coming volumes, with the truth on Doble.
Babcock and Wilcox on 'Steam its Generation' and Use’ from 1955 is great, if you are good with calculators. Even with out a number cruncher, it still has a lot of good ideas. I am not sure when the B&W bible changes, but the later editions lose the preliminary design data, and become sales books for B&W nuclear power plants. Though there was a foray back into coal fired steam cargo vessels around 1976, with a couple of interesting tidbits on marine gravity circulation boiler design in a chapter covering them.
My favorite from the old school of build it like this, because after a hundred years of hit and miss, we figure it wont break, is Lindsay Publications reprint of Joshua Rose’s ‘Modern Steam Engines’ from 1887. Rose’s book has some interesting engravings of various engine designs from that period. A couple of which have left me going, what on earth were they thinking. Rose’s book is a lot of fun, and goes into some serious hand layout of ‘valve motions’, and the Stephenson link motion. Better yet, it is a large format book for those of us whose eyesight has seen better days. www.lindsaybks.com I belive is there web site.
On my not sure list.
(This book hasn’t begun to reach my favorite steam books list as yet) I have copies of ‘Kent’s Mechanical Engineers’ Handbook’, on both Power and Machinery (two separate volumes) from 1937. The interesting thing I note is the 1910 copyright has been renewed by the bank that were the trusties of Kent’s estate, and the following page has a list of ‘collaborators’ on this 11th edition. Apparently the 1915 edition was the last Kent did himself. The chapter on Steam Engines is fairly short, and seems to be given over to guesstimations of indicator cards to come up with MEP. I haven’t yet plowed into the structural design data. There are smidgens of calculus here, which are followed by turn of the century lay outs. In other words, you get several ways to look at the same thing.
On my, its interesting to watch engineering change list is a book that just arrived today. (3/28/02)
‘The Steam Engine’ by A. B. Clemens’ would have been a solid book on steam engine design in about 1890. However, this edition is from 1928. It is published by the International Textbook Company. A fact that if I had known, I would probably would not have bothered with this book. I believe ITC did a bit of correspondence school work back then, and gave you a degree for having taken your money. From other volumes I have seen from ITC, they look like they are knock offs of earlier works whose copyrights have been allowed to lapse. With a couple of minor exceptions, you might as well buy Lindsay Publications reprint of Joshua Rose’s book & Lindsay's Steam-Engine Design from ICS. I think ICS may have been one of ITC's competitors. I personally would not trust any of these books to design a ‘high’ pressure engine based on percentage relationships to cylinder bore and initial pressure. Most of these rules of thumb were arrived at in the days when 150 psi was considered high pressure.
Again guys... Thank You
Garry</HTML>
Re: Top 10 Books
Posted by: George K. Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: March 29, 2002 03:05PM
<HTML>Garry,
I agree, the first two are exceptional books, B&W was such a big outfit back then that every graduating mechanical engineer got a free copy---mine is terribly worn after 33 years--it is the 1955 version also. I have two extra copies, one newer and not as familiar. It is a real text book, if you look at the basic conductances on the graphs you can go back to some earlier pages and use all the dimensionless equations and plot values for 1/4, 1/8th" tubes and they fit perfectly. They give all the background equations for absolute viscosity as well, can be plotted on top of their graphs on viscosity of saturated and superheated steam so that lines for 1%,, 2%, 5% steam by weight etc. can be plotted and never have to be figured out again when checking flow losses and Reynolds numbers. A shame the lawyers have them on the asbestos bfood chain and are in Chapter 11.
Walton's book the same, one can blow up the graphs several times and a lot of hidden info in those horsepower curves. Their is one plot of a German Doble boiler of temperature versus length of tubing---blow that one up and one can determine the large pressure drop as one advances along the monotube by the reduction in saturation temperature--so much good stuff in both books!!
Keep chugging, George</HTML>
I agree, the first two are exceptional books, B&W was such a big outfit back then that every graduating mechanical engineer got a free copy---mine is terribly worn after 33 years--it is the 1955 version also. I have two extra copies, one newer and not as familiar. It is a real text book, if you look at the basic conductances on the graphs you can go back to some earlier pages and use all the dimensionless equations and plot values for 1/4, 1/8th" tubes and they fit perfectly. They give all the background equations for absolute viscosity as well, can be plotted on top of their graphs on viscosity of saturated and superheated steam so that lines for 1%,, 2%, 5% steam by weight etc. can be plotted and never have to be figured out again when checking flow losses and Reynolds numbers. A shame the lawyers have them on the asbestos bfood chain and are in Chapter 11.
Walton's book the same, one can blow up the graphs several times and a lot of hidden info in those horsepower curves. Their is one plot of a German Doble boiler of temperature versus length of tubing---blow that one up and one can determine the large pressure drop as one advances along the monotube by the reduction in saturation temperature--so much good stuff in both books!!
Keep chugging, George</HTML>
Re: Top 10 Books
Posted by: David K. Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: March 29, 2002 10:19PM
<HTML>I listed the books I thought might be most usefull in the note: "Homework" in the Steam Help column of the NorthEast page of the SACA web site. Pelase check it out there, I am too lazy to retype it.</HTML>
Re: Classic Books
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: March 30, 2002 12:59AM
<HTML>J.Rose,,yes,yes,,but dont forget his,,,Modern Machine Shop Practice Scribners ,,,1883 ,,Its a RReal classic,, AND for those REAL collecters,, get a real copy 1st or 2nd add'n,,, First adn has a 1897suppliment ,,2nd is complete in 2vol as is 3rd,,,,,ALL3 are worth the trouble All 3 are different,,,XXXXXAppleton's Dictionary,,,,Appletons Encyclopedia are BOTH very good,,,yeh I know there not up to date,,,,NOT much in THIS house is,,For some of our friends trying to figgure any of this stuff,,,,Geo Woodbury's story of a Stanley Steamer is still not a bad place to start,,,This thing will die if we dont encourage fresh blood,,,Gott'a make it easy to get started,,,Has anybody got a owners manual for a 1885 Coldwell LAWNMOWER?? How many copies of Rose do we have collectivly?? FUN,,,,, Cheers Ben P/s Modern Steam Cars/ Derr 1st IS NOT SAME as Clymers!!! Motto,,, DO not assume...</HTML>
Re: Marks to standard or not to standard
Posted by: Garry Hunsaker (IP Logged)
Date: March 30, 2002 01:48AM
<HTML>“Mechanical Engineers' Handbook” by Lionel Marks, I am guessing is the earlier title for “Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers” By doing a search for, Marks Engineer, I ran across this, and books on acoustics, that Marks apparently edited. “Mechanical Engineers Handbook”, goes back at least into the 1920’s. The latest edition I noticed was from the early 50’s. The 1941 edition is about two hundred pages longer than the 1946 edition. The 1941 edition is over two thousand pages long. I wonder what got left out??
It looks like without much effort one could become an engineering historian following this thread...
Garry</HTML>
It looks like without much effort one could become an engineering historian following this thread...
Garry</HTML>
Re: Classic Books
Posted by: Garry Hunsaker (IP Logged)
Date: March 30, 2002 02:24AM
<HTML>Woolbury's, “The Story of A Stanley Steamer”, is setting next to me here on the desk as I write this. It is the book I found at our local library as a kid (1960 or so), that let me know such things as steam cars ever existed. Sadly, this is an ex-library copy I have.
I agree with you totally C, if we can't find a way to make this simple enough for folks with a beginning interest to understand, steam power will become a poor misunderstood foot note in history.
Then without books like Woodbury's in our public libraries, how is a young person of today ever going to know anything, but the half baked opinions of the uninformed? Maybe a second list of books we might be Lindsay intersted in republishing?
Garry
PS: Thanks for the info on Derr.</HTML>
I agree with you totally C, if we can't find a way to make this simple enough for folks with a beginning interest to understand, steam power will become a poor misunderstood foot note in history.
Then without books like Woodbury's in our public libraries, how is a young person of today ever going to know anything, but the half baked opinions of the uninformed? Maybe a second list of books we might be Lindsay intersted in republishing?
Garry
PS: Thanks for the info on Derr.</HTML>
Re: Top 10 Books
Posted by: David K. Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: March 30, 2002 11:29AM
<HTML>Please list exact title, author and publisher of the books you suggest. I can't recognize many of the books in your list.</HTML>
Re: Top 10 Books
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: April 03, 2002 01:43PM
<HTML>A word of book caution ! I just purchased a copy of "Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers" but I got the wrong edition. I got the 4th edition, all 2136 pages of it but it was the 1947 printing of the 1941, 4th edition which is a war edition. What that means is the book is smaller format with smaller type, thin pages and reduced margins, much harder to read. I was bought this one because it had the most pages of any edition and I was hoping to get more reciprocating steam engine information than a newer edition, oops.
Does any one else have a top ten list they might share ?
Peter Heid</HTML>
Does any one else have a top ten list they might share ?
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: Top 10 Books
Posted by: Garry Hunsaker (IP Logged)
Date: April 03, 2002 10:55PM
<HTML>Oops, albirs sent me notification yesterday they shipped my 4th edition third printing of Marks. Looks like well be in the market for magnifying glass's Peter.
my apologies.
Garry</HTML>
my apologies.
Garry</HTML>
Re: Top 10 Books
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: April 04, 2002 08:42AM
<HTML>A few of my faves are:
"Smogless Days", by Stanley "Steamer" Ellis. Fun and informative, a real steam car classic.
"Collecting and Restoring Old Steam Engines", by Richard J. Evans (Blue Ridge Summit, PA: TAB Books, 1980, ISBN 0-8306-2061-3), loads of practical info and a slant toward steam cars.
"Self-Propelled Vehicles", by James E. Homans (New York: Theo. Audel & Company, 1910). Available in various editions, 1902, 1904, 1906, & 1909; I was told there is also a 1911 edition. In the late 1980s, Modeltec magazine reprinted several chapters from the 1902 edition, with all kinds of wacky stuff from very early oddball steam cars, much of which is not in my 1910 edition. Tons of contemporary info on steamers, and a good steam primer.
"Old Time Steam Cars" by John Bentley, ARCO books, late 1960s. Lots of misinformation and misunderstanding about steam, but also good historical and basic tech info, and lotsa purty pitchurs. Delightful original dust jacket has Edgar Bergen & Charley McCarthy riding in a coffin-nose Stanley. Which for some reason brings to mind the antique car ride at the famous Tivoli gardens in Copenhagen, which has a couple of mini replica Stanleys which doggone it weren't running when I was there. I did get my picture taken in front of them, though. BTW, steer clear of the Hard Rock Cafe in Tivoli if you're sick of things American and looking for local flavor; even the waiters are American. Well, the food is good, they do have one of Jimi Hendrix' guitars, & I suppose it is an exotic foreign thing to the Danes. What a digression. Anyway ...
"The Modern Steam Car and its background", by Thomas S. Derr, recently (currently?) available in reprint from Lindsay Publications. Much of the same stuff as in Clymer's Scrapbook, and then some, preceded by a text largely plagiarized from Stanley Co. literature. Worth grabbing.
A fun minibook by Richard J. Evans, "Steam Cars" (Shire Album #153, 1985, Shire Publications Ltd, Cromwell House, Church Street, Princes Risborough, Aylesbury, Bucks HP17 9AJ, UK), 32 pp of steamy fun with pix and info I've never seen anywhere else, incl a few SES photos.
Plus of course, Clymer's Scrapbook, Kent (I have the '36 edition also Eshbach's "Engineering Fundamentals" volume from same series), Marks, and so on, already discussed in this string. I have a couple of the ICS engineering books from the 1890s too, they really get right to the point -- "Engineering For Dummies", 1890s style.
Beyond books, old issues of "The Steam Automobile" (SACA) are a gold mine of info, and the Stanley Museum Quarterly, The Steam Automobile Bulletin (SACA), and The Steam Car (SCCGB), are good current publications. Fortunately, the amount of easy-access steam car info on the web has been growing by leaps and bounds, including Mr. Woodson's top-notch website and discussion board. :)
Peter</HTML>
"Smogless Days", by Stanley "Steamer" Ellis. Fun and informative, a real steam car classic.
"Collecting and Restoring Old Steam Engines", by Richard J. Evans (Blue Ridge Summit, PA: TAB Books, 1980, ISBN 0-8306-2061-3), loads of practical info and a slant toward steam cars.
"Self-Propelled Vehicles", by James E. Homans (New York: Theo. Audel & Company, 1910). Available in various editions, 1902, 1904, 1906, & 1909; I was told there is also a 1911 edition. In the late 1980s, Modeltec magazine reprinted several chapters from the 1902 edition, with all kinds of wacky stuff from very early oddball steam cars, much of which is not in my 1910 edition. Tons of contemporary info on steamers, and a good steam primer.
"Old Time Steam Cars" by John Bentley, ARCO books, late 1960s. Lots of misinformation and misunderstanding about steam, but also good historical and basic tech info, and lotsa purty pitchurs. Delightful original dust jacket has Edgar Bergen & Charley McCarthy riding in a coffin-nose Stanley. Which for some reason brings to mind the antique car ride at the famous Tivoli gardens in Copenhagen, which has a couple of mini replica Stanleys which doggone it weren't running when I was there. I did get my picture taken in front of them, though. BTW, steer clear of the Hard Rock Cafe in Tivoli if you're sick of things American and looking for local flavor; even the waiters are American. Well, the food is good, they do have one of Jimi Hendrix' guitars, & I suppose it is an exotic foreign thing to the Danes. What a digression. Anyway ...
"The Modern Steam Car and its background", by Thomas S. Derr, recently (currently?) available in reprint from Lindsay Publications. Much of the same stuff as in Clymer's Scrapbook, and then some, preceded by a text largely plagiarized from Stanley Co. literature. Worth grabbing.
A fun minibook by Richard J. Evans, "Steam Cars" (Shire Album #153, 1985, Shire Publications Ltd, Cromwell House, Church Street, Princes Risborough, Aylesbury, Bucks HP17 9AJ, UK), 32 pp of steamy fun with pix and info I've never seen anywhere else, incl a few SES photos.
Plus of course, Clymer's Scrapbook, Kent (I have the '36 edition also Eshbach's "Engineering Fundamentals" volume from same series), Marks, and so on, already discussed in this string. I have a couple of the ICS engineering books from the 1890s too, they really get right to the point -- "Engineering For Dummies", 1890s style.
Beyond books, old issues of "The Steam Automobile" (SACA) are a gold mine of info, and the Stanley Museum Quarterly, The Steam Automobile Bulletin (SACA), and The Steam Car (SCCGB), are good current publications. Fortunately, the amount of easy-access steam car info on the web has been growing by leaps and bounds, including Mr. Woodson's top-notch website and discussion board. :)
Peter</HTML>
Re: pirate short copy
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: April 04, 2002 12:03PM
<HTML>IS the more recent copy of Derr's book,,,Modern steam cars,,, A copy of Clymer,,, or the ORIGINAL 1932,,,,Clymers is NOT COMPLETE....There a few old copys left watch for em,,,,Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: Top 10 Books
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: April 04, 2002 04:24PM
<HTML>George,
The 10th edition, 1999 is available on cd rom and not cheap I'm sure.
Peter Heid</HTML>
The 10th edition, 1999 is available on cd rom and not cheap I'm sure.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: Classic Books
Posted by: Christopher W. Roberts (IP Logged)
Date: April 04, 2002 06:02PM
<HTML> Let's not forget "Smogless Days" by Stanley Ellis</HTML>
Re: Classic Books
Posted by: Garry Hunsaker (IP Logged)
Date: April 04, 2002 09:02PM
<HTML>I would love to have a copy of "Smogless Days" by Stanley Ellis. With used prices running anywhere from $100 to $160, this is one of the books I would love to see reprinted by Lindsay or others.
Garry</HTML>
Garry</HTML>
Re: Top 10 Books
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: April 15, 2002 05:34PM
<HTML>George,
An exceptional selection. I now have a 1947 and a 1967 edition, the 67 is better and does not leave out any reciprocating steam engine info. The type is not much larger though, sore eyes. This should stay on the desk not the book shelf, it saves looking in several other books at one time.
Peter Heid</HTML>
An exceptional selection. I now have a 1947 and a 1967 edition, the 67 is better and does not leave out any reciprocating steam engine info. The type is not much larger though, sore eyes. This should stay on the desk not the book shelf, it saves looking in several other books at one time.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: PUMP BOOK
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: April 23, 2002 05:06PM
<HTML>The pump book I have found with the best informationof its type is "Pump Handbook", McGraw-Hill 1976 Karassik, Krutzsch, fraser & Messina. The book includes design examples and works you through them. It is a fine text with probably over 1000 pages of working information.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: classic books
Posted by: ronald parola (IP Logged)
Date: April 27, 2002 10:56PM
<HTML>Would anyone have an extra copy of; La Locomotive a Vapeur, Andre Chaplelon (english ) isbn 0953652300 and ; Leader- Steams last chance, Kevin Robertson, isbn 0862993768 ? I've been looking at the on line booksellers, they have the Chapelon book EXCEPT when you order it then they are gone, Bah!! Ron P</HTML>
Re: classic books
Posted by: Mark Stacey (IP Logged)
Date: May 04, 2002 06:16AM
<HTML>Hi Ron
I don't have a copy but I'm still considering buying it.
Advertized in Model Engineer 20 April 2001
La Locomotive a vapeur
Translated by George W Carpenter
Published by
Camden Minature Steam Services
Barrow Farm
Rode, Nr Bath
Somerset BA3 6PS
phone 013773-830151
www.camdenmin.co.uk
Price 68.85 POUNDS
Nurse bring the smelling salts and quickly woman. My wife just saw that
I've checked the site and it shows it as avaliable.
And yep I can't resist and will buy a copy.
Is there any interest in a new thread re the worst steam / steam car books? I've chased down and paid money for a couple of absolute clunkers plus a couple that are only worth a couple of $ for the pictures.
Cheers
Mark Stacey</HTML>
I don't have a copy but I'm still considering buying it.
Advertized in Model Engineer 20 April 2001
La Locomotive a vapeur
Translated by George W Carpenter
Published by
Camden Minature Steam Services
Barrow Farm
Rode, Nr Bath
Somerset BA3 6PS
phone 013773-830151
www.camdenmin.co.uk
Price 68.85 POUNDS
Nurse bring the smelling salts and quickly woman. My wife just saw that
I've checked the site and it shows it as avaliable.
And yep I can't resist and will buy a copy.
Is there any interest in a new thread re the worst steam / steam car books? I've chased down and paid money for a couple of absolute clunkers plus a couple that are only worth a couple of $ for the pictures.
Cheers
Mark Stacey</HTML>
Re: classic books
Posted by: ronald parola (IP Logged)
Date: May 04, 2002 01:54PM
<HTML>Have ordered Chapelon book from a fellow in Chicago, but that was 3 weeks ago, two weeks ago when I called back he couldn't find my address, I'll give him another week. Meanwhile in an Austrailian Model engineering mag on the back page is an ad for PLough Books Sales ;www.ploughbooksales.com.au. They list that book and some interesting others Ron P</HTML>
Re: Top 10 Books
Posted by: George K. Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: May 05, 2002 02:33PM
<HTML>Peter,
One of the most interesting antique books that has dozens of glossy pull out photos of huge marine engines of up to 10,000 HP is "MARINE ENGINES AND BOILERS" by Dr. G. Bauer(engineer-in-chief of the Vulcan Works, Stettin) and edited by Leslie Robertson. Date 1907 with 800+ pages on all aspects of engine design. The photographs are enthralling to say the least. Must have been an authoritive text in its day.
Best, George</HTML>
One of the most interesting antique books that has dozens of glossy pull out photos of huge marine engines of up to 10,000 HP is "MARINE ENGINES AND BOILERS" by Dr. G. Bauer(engineer-in-chief of the Vulcan Works, Stettin) and edited by Leslie Robertson. Date 1907 with 800+ pages on all aspects of engine design. The photographs are enthralling to say the least. Must have been an authoritive text in its day.
Best, George</HTML>
Re: Top 10 Books
Posted by: ronald parola (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2002 01:52AM
<HTML>Check out "Marine Diesel OIL Engines.. A Manual of Marine Oil Engine practice" J.W.M.Sothern M.I.E.S.,M.I.Mar.E. (Don't even ask what the letters mean.) Printed 1928. This is about heavy oil engines, simidiesels, AND the legendary Scott-Still (combined) 2-cycle engine. This is a 2 stroke diesel on the top of the piston and a STEAM engine on the bottom, using waste diesel heat to boil water, and the cooling jacket to be a feed water heater...very sucessfull, or maybe not. Anyway GREAT onionskin fold outs!! Ron P</HTML>
Re: Top 10 Books/Still Engine
Posted by: George K. Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2002 06:12PM
<HTML>Ron,
The Still engine was indeed a great piece of work, up to 500HP, believe they had 43% thermal efficiency under test with a 300HP unit, the diesel water jacket ran at 100-120psig and was superheated by the diesel exhaust. This was much higher efficiency than anything but a most modern diesel. It had a small boiler for external starting and this was disconnected when the diesel water jacket and exhaust heat provided all the steam for the underside of the diesel piston, thus a double acting engine. What thermal efficiency!! From what I have heard it was very durable and well running. At this rate my old Dodge Caravan would get over 60 miles per gallon of diesel fuel!!! Hey, a 1/3rd steam engine is not a bad compromise.
Best, George</HTML>
The Still engine was indeed a great piece of work, up to 500HP, believe they had 43% thermal efficiency under test with a 300HP unit, the diesel water jacket ran at 100-120psig and was superheated by the diesel exhaust. This was much higher efficiency than anything but a most modern diesel. It had a small boiler for external starting and this was disconnected when the diesel water jacket and exhaust heat provided all the steam for the underside of the diesel piston, thus a double acting engine. What thermal efficiency!! From what I have heard it was very durable and well running. At this rate my old Dodge Caravan would get over 60 miles per gallon of diesel fuel!!! Hey, a 1/3rd steam engine is not a bad compromise.
Best, George</HTML>
Re: Top 10 Books/Still Engine
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: May 09, 2002 09:41PM
<HTML>Henry Ford saw to the building of one of these engines for one of the plants,,,it was in use for many years as a generating plant I think,,,I believe it was re-placed in HFM[ museum] and think its still there,,Hey ,,is John Bowdich reading these pages,,,He was head of machinery there til just a few y's ago,,,He's in Ann Arbor , Mi. now,,,If U fellows are after LARGE eng spec's Check the E.P. ALLIS eng' at Chestnut Hill[Boston] pumping sta 830HP 17.5RPM triple / cap 32million gal/day,,,as I recall its % was close to terbine,,,,,Its 3 storys tall a'n more in the cellar !!! oh memories ,,,Cheers Ben oh yea,, thats really 17point 5 rpm</HTML>
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