1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
new steam car
Posted by: EARL C. LEAVEY, JR. (IP Logged)
Date: December 09, 2005 06:32PM
<HTML>BMW STEAMER LINK AT MY WEBSITE PAGE - [free.hostdepartment.com];
Re: new steam car
Posted by: Howard Randall (IP Logged)
Date: December 09, 2005 07:27PM
<HTML>Nice!
At last someone has looked at a holistic approach to all that heat energy dissipated by the radiator.
Think of what could have been done with all this ICE related waste heat over the last 100 years!!
I have had the thought that if we could put on-board storage of the waste heat in eutectic salts or some other high specific heat medium, it could be exchanged at a fuel filling station for an energy credit.
The re-fuel/heat exchange station could then use it to generate electricity, or as “process heat,” or for heating / cooling, for example.
I would settle on taking it home to help heat/cool my NE home!</HTML>
At last someone has looked at a holistic approach to all that heat energy dissipated by the radiator.
Think of what could have been done with all this ICE related waste heat over the last 100 years!!
I have had the thought that if we could put on-board storage of the waste heat in eutectic salts or some other high specific heat medium, it could be exchanged at a fuel filling station for an energy credit.
The re-fuel/heat exchange station could then use it to generate electricity, or as “process heat,” or for heating / cooling, for example.
I would settle on taking it home to help heat/cool my NE home!</HTML>
Re: new steam car
Posted by: EARL C. LEAVEY, JR. (IP Logged)
Date: December 10, 2005 04:02AM
<HTML>HI ! HOWARD, THE AUTOMOTIVE COMPANIES WORKED ON STEAM PROJECTS IN THE 1970'S . BUT FEW CAR COMPANIES DOING DEVELOPEMENT , NOW. I HAVE A LINK TO THE SKODA STEAM CAR ON MY WEBSITE , AND NOW A LINK TO THE BMW EFFORT. WONDER WHAT KIND OF AN EXPANDER THEIR USING ON THE DRIVE SHAFT ? THE IC ENGINE PROVIDES MOST OF THE POWER.///////// I'M ORIGINALY FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE, BUT NOW FROM LEESBURG, FLORIDA - RECENT WEATHER RAIN AND COOL TEMPS. A WEEK FROM NOW, I'LL BE VISITING THE NEW ENGLAND STATES AND GET TO SEE THE WINTER WEATHER. BEST REGARDS, EARL</HTML>
Re: new steam car
Posted by: EARL C. LEAVEY, JR. (IP Logged)
Date: December 10, 2005 04:13AM
<HTML>HOWARD, I JUST REALIZED THE SKODA LINK HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED. SORRY ABOUT THAT. EARL</HTML>
Re: new steam car
Posted by: Arnold Walker (IP Logged)
Date: December 10, 2005 10:44PM
<HTML>Nice to see combined cycle used on a smaller scale than 100MW+ lightplants.If BMW is on the stick, with this to the degree that you see
GE,Westinghouse, and Caterpillar,60 to 80% total efficeicny is possible.
Have been kicking this idea around for years, for heavy truck applicables.
As a sidenote,Caterpillar owns Leland who bought the Sentinel(of steam lorry and steam train fame.....to some, the one of the last places, Doble worked in the last days of his design career.) out.
By that time virtually nothing was left of Sentinel to prove it ever existed.
Leland was into diesels, not steam products.
Hopefully,Bmw will look at kalina cycle as well to push the upper limit on heat extraction from the gas engine.(Adsorption refrigation with a energy production twist.....steam puritans will take exception ,but that is the best "man on the street" definition I can think of.You add enorgh ammonia, to steam with lower grade heat on a "bottoming cycle"To wring every BTU,
of heat down to 160F.(the temperature the water is adjusted to boil at)
Lower than that and you shock cool the gas engine.
Not sure about BMW,but the motor block ,oil cooler,and transmission cooler. "work" as the evaporator.and the exhaust as the superheat,reheat,and normalizer sections.On most designs for diesel engines.</HTML>
GE,Westinghouse, and Caterpillar,60 to 80% total efficeicny is possible.
Have been kicking this idea around for years, for heavy truck applicables.
As a sidenote,Caterpillar owns Leland who bought the Sentinel(of steam lorry and steam train fame.....to some, the one of the last places, Doble worked in the last days of his design career.) out.
By that time virtually nothing was left of Sentinel to prove it ever existed.
Leland was into diesels, not steam products.
Hopefully,Bmw will look at kalina cycle as well to push the upper limit on heat extraction from the gas engine.(Adsorption refrigation with a energy production twist.....steam puritans will take exception ,but that is the best "man on the street" definition I can think of.You add enorgh ammonia, to steam with lower grade heat on a "bottoming cycle"To wring every BTU,
of heat down to 160F.(the temperature the water is adjusted to boil at)
Lower than that and you shock cool the gas engine.
Not sure about BMW,but the motor block ,oil cooler,and transmission cooler. "work" as the evaporator.and the exhaust as the superheat,reheat,and normalizer sections.On most designs for diesel engines.</HTML>
Re: new steam car
Posted by: Arnold Walker (IP Logged)
Date: December 11, 2005 08:38PM
<HTML>They already did that .....sort of . When the car staged for 2013 rolls out.
The first try at waste heat recovery was thermoelectric with the exhaust
generating 1000w on a solidstate alternator(pelitier pile).
With 10 or 15% gain on the steamcompound or combined cycle turbine.
Over the stock gas engine....they still can improve it .It is an improvement over the peltier thermocouple method of heat recovery.
The combined cycle car is set for 2016 production.......with 17horses roughly from steampower at full load.</HTML>
The first try at waste heat recovery was thermoelectric with the exhaust
generating 1000w on a solidstate alternator(pelitier pile).
With 10 or 15% gain on the steamcompound or combined cycle turbine.
Over the stock gas engine....they still can improve it .It is an improvement over the peltier thermocouple method of heat recovery.
The combined cycle car is set for 2016 production.......with 17horses roughly from steampower at full load.</HTML>
Re: new steam car
Posted by: Brian Drake (IP Logged)
Date: December 12, 2005 11:36PM
<HTML>VW was supposed to use a heat battery to warm the cat up on their cars about a decade ago, but nothing seems to have come of it.
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Re: new steam car
Posted by: Arnold Walker (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2005 12:47AM
<HTML>I forgot about that until you mentioned it.
Remember someone else....Swede maybe working on that same idea.
I think they were like BMW ....thinking the exhaust could run all the aux.
power in time ,like alternator,air conditioner,power steering ,etc.
Also peltier style thermoelectric gadget.
Gas engines tend to be the flip side of diesels with the exhaust putting out the most heat.While in diesels it is the block coolant.As rated in BTU's,not temperature.</HTML>
Remember someone else....Swede maybe working on that same idea.
I think they were like BMW ....thinking the exhaust could run all the aux.
power in time ,like alternator,air conditioner,power steering ,etc.
Also peltier style thermoelectric gadget.
Gas engines tend to be the flip side of diesels with the exhaust putting out the most heat.While in diesels it is the block coolant.As rated in BTU's,not temperature.</HTML>
Re: new steam car
Posted by: Arnold Walker (IP Logged)
Date: December 13, 2005 08:53AM
<HTML>BMW seems to be going in the 15psi direct on the turbine.
Bigger turbine than would be needed for a 100+ psi system.
Could have have held that 15psi if they lined out a heat exchanger coil.
In a lamonte steam separator running a kalina cycle in the rest of the
lamont system.Engine and water pump is happy with 15psi standard antifreeze and water,while the kalina side is running higher pressures.
For a more compact turbine.</HTML>
Bigger turbine than would be needed for a 100+ psi system.
Could have have held that 15psi if they lined out a heat exchanger coil.
In a lamonte steam separator running a kalina cycle in the rest of the
lamont system.Engine and water pump is happy with 15psi standard antifreeze and water,while the kalina side is running higher pressures.
For a more compact turbine.</HTML>
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