1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
winter project
Posted by: jim perry (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2005 12:18PM
<HTML>Hi, I'm Jim Perry from Clovis NM, I have a small machine shop and I would like to build a steam driven shop truck. I have a pretty good knowledge of steam engines and have read as much as I have time for on the subject over the last few years. Could anyone suggest an engine and boiler design that might fit the bill. I am looking towards a condensing type system since I have to make some 200 mile round trips to Lubbock TX., and Ammirillo TX. ocasionally.I have an old GMC truck w/out the motor to use as the donor vehicle. any help would be greatly appreciated.
thanks J. P></HTML>
thanks J. P></HTML>
Re: winter project
Posted by: Bill Gatlin (IP Logged)
Date: December 20, 2005 02:34AM
<HTML>Jim,
What are you planning to fuel it with?
I would suggest that you use a Lamont boiler. Design for around 1100 deg F and about 1000 psi. Use the Mobil synthetic gear oil in the crankcase and well monitored feed to the rings and valve guides, not mixed with the steam.
Spend extra care with oil/water separation, which is easier with this oil, and use a special filter to remove the last of the oil before it gets to the feed pump.
Use common sizes of piston/cylinder diameters so that rings and wrist pins are available. Use Total Seal piston rings.
chrome the cylinders, nitride the rings (they can come that way. Insulate the piston crowns and head.
Use as long a connecting rod as practical, about twice the stroke. Put pads on the piston skirt to minimise slap. Run a vacuum on the crankcase and keep it at about 250 degrees while running. Also a vacuum on the condenser. A small Roots blower is good for this as might be a small vane pump.
Use popett valves that open up into the steamchest. About 5/8 diameter and 0.10 lift. A cam that has three to five different cutoff values and will slide to make the adjustment. Don't try for too short a cutoff, use a combo of cutoff and throttling for control.
The clearance will need to be varied as the engine is running. The easiest way to do this with valves that open to antechambers and control to respond to engine conditions.
With rear wheel drive keep the engine tight to the firewall. I think the best configuration would be a Vee 4, with a 180 degree crank inate balance would be good. Build the crank, rods and wrist pins, bearings etc like a tank.
That's some of my thoughts. I highly recommend that you study the ongoing work of Ted Prichard and read this and the Steam automobile Phorum from one end to the other.
Join SACA, if you are not already a member of course.
Best of luck and please keep us informed on you and your project. ----------- Bill G.
*ps. others will of course disagree as to the best route to follow that's what keeps it interesting.</HTML>
What are you planning to fuel it with?
I would suggest that you use a Lamont boiler. Design for around 1100 deg F and about 1000 psi. Use the Mobil synthetic gear oil in the crankcase and well monitored feed to the rings and valve guides, not mixed with the steam.
Spend extra care with oil/water separation, which is easier with this oil, and use a special filter to remove the last of the oil before it gets to the feed pump.
Use common sizes of piston/cylinder diameters so that rings and wrist pins are available. Use Total Seal piston rings.
chrome the cylinders, nitride the rings (they can come that way. Insulate the piston crowns and head.
Use as long a connecting rod as practical, about twice the stroke. Put pads on the piston skirt to minimise slap. Run a vacuum on the crankcase and keep it at about 250 degrees while running. Also a vacuum on the condenser. A small Roots blower is good for this as might be a small vane pump.
Use popett valves that open up into the steamchest. About 5/8 diameter and 0.10 lift. A cam that has three to five different cutoff values and will slide to make the adjustment. Don't try for too short a cutoff, use a combo of cutoff and throttling for control.
The clearance will need to be varied as the engine is running. The easiest way to do this with valves that open to antechambers and control to respond to engine conditions.
With rear wheel drive keep the engine tight to the firewall. I think the best configuration would be a Vee 4, with a 180 degree crank inate balance would be good. Build the crank, rods and wrist pins, bearings etc like a tank.
That's some of my thoughts. I highly recommend that you study the ongoing work of Ted Prichard and read this and the Steam automobile Phorum from one end to the other.
Join SACA, if you are not already a member of course.
Best of luck and please keep us informed on you and your project. ----------- Bill G.
*ps. others will of course disagree as to the best route to follow that's what keeps it interesting.</HTML>
Re: winter project
Posted by: jim perry (IP Logged)
Date: December 20, 2005 05:38PM
<HTML>Thanks Bill for your response to my questions. I'm planing to use filtered waste oil for my heat source. I have a close friend that has prefected an oil burner that can be controlled as to the volume of heat supplied. by this I mean, if he wants to only heat a small area he can by adjusting one valve or if He wants to melt aluminum he just turns the one valve up some more.
As far as smellie exhaust or black smoke, their isn't any, just clear exhaust like you would see coming from a jet engine.I have built two of these units and I seriously believe I can build one with the proper boiler and still put it under the hood with no one being the wiser.</HTML>
As far as smellie exhaust or black smoke, their isn't any, just clear exhaust like you would see coming from a jet engine.I have built two of these units and I seriously believe I can build one with the proper boiler and still put it under the hood with no one being the wiser.</HTML>
Re: winter project
Posted by: Bill Gatlin (IP Logged)
Date: December 20, 2005 06:15PM
<HTML>Jim,
It sounds like that burner would also do a good job with bio-fuels. What multifuel capabilities do you see with it?
Thanks --------- Bill G.</HTML>
It sounds like that burner would also do a good job with bio-fuels. What multifuel capabilities do you see with it?
Thanks --------- Bill G.</HTML>
Re: winter project
Posted by: Arnold Walker (IP Logged)
Date: December 20, 2005 08:44PM
<HTML>Pressure is more accurate....it may seem strangle to you ,but heat on a
boiler will not flow at the same speed as the pressure.
On my wood and oil boiler, the temperature actually jumps 25-50F when you cycle the blower off, for a minute or two because of radiant heat transfer.Something on the same order happens when it cycles on as the air reheats to convesion temperature.In both cases the pressure remained unchanged.(pressure combustion lamont)
Bill,been there, done that, biofuel is the same as mineral oil on the burn.
At least, that is what I found with restuarant grease and oil.
Need to filter it ....large pieces will clog nozzles.</HTML>
boiler will not flow at the same speed as the pressure.
On my wood and oil boiler, the temperature actually jumps 25-50F when you cycle the blower off, for a minute or two because of radiant heat transfer.Something on the same order happens when it cycles on as the air reheats to convesion temperature.In both cases the pressure remained unchanged.(pressure combustion lamont)
Bill,been there, done that, biofuel is the same as mineral oil on the burn.
At least, that is what I found with restuarant grease and oil.
Need to filter it ....large pieces will clog nozzles.</HTML>
Re: winter project
Posted by: Andy Patterson (IP Logged)
Date: December 20, 2005 11:23PM
<HTML>Hi Arnold.
?? What are you responding to ?? "Pressure is more accurate"
For boiler control on a lamont stand pipe presssure and level of fluid in stand pipe should be all that is neccessary. A fixed length supperheater coil deturmins the supper heat.
The stand pipe basicly contains saturated steam and water. The saturation temp is known from the pressure.</HTML>
?? What are you responding to ?? "Pressure is more accurate"
For boiler control on a lamont stand pipe presssure and level of fluid in stand pipe should be all that is neccessary. A fixed length supperheater coil deturmins the supper heat.
The stand pipe basicly contains saturated steam and water. The saturation temp is known from the pressure.</HTML>
Re: winter project
Posted by: Arnold Walker (IP Logged)
Date: December 23, 2005 09:27PM
<HTML>I misread variable heat as temperature controled,was making sure he knew to pressure control the burner.
In a round about way,you confirmed the need for pressure controled burners.With your question.....</HTML>
In a round about way,you confirmed the need for pressure controled burners.With your question.....</HTML>
Re: winter project
Posted by: Howard Langdon (IP Logged)
Date: December 27, 2005 01:04AM
<HTML>Hi Jim,
Think twice about the Lamont boiler. Everybody is talking about them but not building them. As far as I know there are only two of them operating. I hate to see a guy get mixed up with a Lamont boiler on his first try. The circulator pump can be really nasty. There are water tube boilers that circulate just as fast.
I am really interested in your burner - especially the variable fire feature.
Could you give me some info.
I have built 15 steam cars and 2 boats and I am working on a 120 mph boat now. If you want to go into more detail about your car I will go into more detail about what you should do about an engine. I am visually handicapped and typing is a real chore for me.
Howard
--</HTML>
Think twice about the Lamont boiler. Everybody is talking about them but not building them. As far as I know there are only two of them operating. I hate to see a guy get mixed up with a Lamont boiler on his first try. The circulator pump can be really nasty. There are water tube boilers that circulate just as fast.
I am really interested in your burner - especially the variable fire feature.
Could you give me some info.
I have built 15 steam cars and 2 boats and I am working on a 120 mph boat now. If you want to go into more detail about your car I will go into more detail about what you should do about an engine. I am visually handicapped and typing is a real chore for me.
Howard
--</HTML>
Re: winter project
Posted by: steven craig (IP Logged)
Date: January 21, 2006 08:11AM
<HTML>I too am building a steam car, a locomobile engine built around a model T frame and a bunch of home made parts. I am planning on using a doble type boiler, and as I have access to a hugh supply of used oil, your oil burner would be just the ticket for my project. Is information on your friends burner available, or is it a guarded secret, posibly headed to the patent office, or something availabe to anyone interested. If you can give me any information on this burner, please email me at craiginstall@comcast.net, if not ,I understand, but I thank you for your time all the same.
Thanks,
Steve Craig</HTML>
Thanks,
Steve Craig</HTML>
Re: winter project
Posted by: jim perry (IP Logged)
Date: January 23, 2006 04:04PM
<HTML>Hi Steven, if you give me a fax # I'll do you one better, I'll send you a hand sketch of the oil burner and instructions on how to build it. My friend Dave passed away christmas morning at a ripe old age of 45. He got sick and was on dialisais for three months. Dave was the one that first introduced me to the oilburner for heating, melting aluminum, boiling water. His small unit only burned maybe a quart or two a day in the winter and kept his shop of 30 x 60 so toasty you wouldn't beleive it. All the parts needed can be purchased at a salvage yard for $10.00 or less for the basic burner.
In the shop next to Daves shop, the owner had one of those Black Diamond oil heaters and it used about 7 to 10 gallons on a cold day as compared to Daves design which might use a 55 gallon drum during the course of a month and a half depending how cold it was outside and how many times he had to open his garage door to move cars in and out.</HTML>
In the shop next to Daves shop, the owner had one of those Black Diamond oil heaters and it used about 7 to 10 gallons on a cold day as compared to Daves design which might use a 55 gallon drum during the course of a month and a half depending how cold it was outside and how many times he had to open his garage door to move cars in and out.</HTML>
Re: winter project
Posted by: George (IP Logged)
Date: January 23, 2006 05:32PM
<HTML>Jim,
Is this burner one of the low pressure air aspirated units like in shp torqedo heaters?? I had a Kohring air conditioner sized window unit in my shop for years and it was one of those type heaters, unfortunately it didn't like running below 10 degrees F(the window unit hanging outside the house.)
Could you send me a sketch as well or send it to JW [jw@stanelysteamers.com] and he will post it on the main webpage of this site. Sure sounds like a nice unit for a 1-2 horsepower steam system.
Thanks, George</HTML>
Is this burner one of the low pressure air aspirated units like in shp torqedo heaters?? I had a Kohring air conditioner sized window unit in my shop for years and it was one of those type heaters, unfortunately it didn't like running below 10 degrees F(the window unit hanging outside the house.)
Could you send me a sketch as well or send it to JW [jw@stanelysteamers.com] and he will post it on the main webpage of this site. Sure sounds like a nice unit for a 1-2 horsepower steam system.
Thanks, George</HTML>
Re: winter project
Posted by: steven craig (IP Logged)
Date: February 16, 2006 06:47AM
<HTML>hi jim,
i e-mailed you about the sketches you offered to fax to me ,but my computer crashed that day , and i dont know if it ever sent it out. igot the computer back up today. iam still very interested in any info you would share. please reply on phorum,and i will send my original email giving my fax number in case it didn't get through the first time.
thanks,
steven craig</HTML>
i e-mailed you about the sketches you offered to fax to me ,but my computer crashed that day , and i dont know if it ever sent it out. igot the computer back up today. iam still very interested in any info you would share. please reply on phorum,and i will send my original email giving my fax number in case it didn't get through the first time.
thanks,
steven craig</HTML>
Re: winter project
Posted by: jb perry (IP Logged)
Date: March 07, 2006 02:10PM
<HTML>mr langdon, give me a fax # and I'll send you some of my burner details
jb perry</HTML>
jb perry</HTML>
George, please send
Posted by: jb perry (IP Logged)
Date: April 03, 2006 12:53PM
<HTML>Hi George, please send me a fax Number and I'll send you the same Info that I've sent to steven Craig and One other guy in W. Va. I would like to get as many people as I can to use my good friends idea, I think he would have liked that. Jim P.</HTML>
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