1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Graeme Vagg (IP Logged)
Date: May 31, 2006 02:36AM
<HTML>Is anyone interested in building a new steam motorcycle or steam power plant that is small and neat enough to fit an average size motorcycle?
A power plant this size has multiple uses in bikes, trikes, karts, ORVs, ATVs, lawn tractors, mulchers and shredders, air compressors, water pumps, home generator sets. At low power levels you can still afford to run on liquid fuels (while still available) but rural users can run on free biomass fuels.
The advantages of low power applications is that a shortfall in performance is not such a big deal, whereas in a car project you are likely to scrap it if it doesn't meet expectations (usually inflated to unrealistic levels in the first place).
I'm not a motorcycle fan or rider (prefer 3 wheels minimum for stability) but have admired several of the neater designs from the past - the 1886 Roper for instance standing out as something special way ahead of its time.
The package constraints of a steam motorcycle are quite a challenge while most of the other applications listed are less demanding and within the scope of a home mechanic. If you can't handle something this size, a car project is way out of reach anyway. So this is "entry level" stuff.
There is also no need to be modern and think computers etc are going to solve your problems - chances are some of the 1886 to 1912 designs will clean up most of the "modern" designs when it comes to cost, actual economy, reliability and value for money. It would be more economical for those with common power needs to compare goals and see if there is any benefit from getting castings and CNC machining done for a small batch of common parts. For one or two you wouldn't bother with this.
A project covering some of these applications is already underway but some underlying support from SACA members for projects of this type will be needed eventually to secure the future of the club.
This is a "doing now" project for current builders. It is likely any successful designs (proven in the field) will end up with drawings sold via the SACA Storeroom or made items sold by SACA members. This will only happen if there is genuine demand and sufficient resources for implementation.
In the first instance, it is important that individual's needs are satisfied. If two people have the same goals, that is enough for some mutual self help.
Thoughts of mass production are in fairyland at present although a small Asian based enterprise could probably come up with something if they had a working model to copy.
Are there two steam system builders anywhere who want to do the same thing?
Graeme</HTML>
A power plant this size has multiple uses in bikes, trikes, karts, ORVs, ATVs, lawn tractors, mulchers and shredders, air compressors, water pumps, home generator sets. At low power levels you can still afford to run on liquid fuels (while still available) but rural users can run on free biomass fuels.
The advantages of low power applications is that a shortfall in performance is not such a big deal, whereas in a car project you are likely to scrap it if it doesn't meet expectations (usually inflated to unrealistic levels in the first place).
I'm not a motorcycle fan or rider (prefer 3 wheels minimum for stability) but have admired several of the neater designs from the past - the 1886 Roper for instance standing out as something special way ahead of its time.
The package constraints of a steam motorcycle are quite a challenge while most of the other applications listed are less demanding and within the scope of a home mechanic. If you can't handle something this size, a car project is way out of reach anyway. So this is "entry level" stuff.
There is also no need to be modern and think computers etc are going to solve your problems - chances are some of the 1886 to 1912 designs will clean up most of the "modern" designs when it comes to cost, actual economy, reliability and value for money. It would be more economical for those with common power needs to compare goals and see if there is any benefit from getting castings and CNC machining done for a small batch of common parts. For one or two you wouldn't bother with this.
A project covering some of these applications is already underway but some underlying support from SACA members for projects of this type will be needed eventually to secure the future of the club.
This is a "doing now" project for current builders. It is likely any successful designs (proven in the field) will end up with drawings sold via the SACA Storeroom or made items sold by SACA members. This will only happen if there is genuine demand and sufficient resources for implementation.
In the first instance, it is important that individual's needs are satisfied. If two people have the same goals, that is enough for some mutual self help.
Thoughts of mass production are in fairyland at present although a small Asian based enterprise could probably come up with something if they had a working model to copy.
Are there two steam system builders anywhere who want to do the same thing?
Graeme</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: ArnoldWalker (IP Logged)
Date: June 02, 2006 06:35PM
<HTML>It might be added that a small system could be used in combined cycle on a diesel car.
Puzzled ,why BMW used a gas engine for thier design.....</HTML>
Puzzled ,why BMW used a gas engine for thier design.....</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Graeme Vagg (IP Logged)
Date: June 03, 2006 12:56AM
<HTML>Arnold,
You might be onto something here. It is likely a new lightweight steam system will be lighter than the BMW bottom cycle components and give a similar amount of power.
Bottom cycles favour less efficient prime movers as these have more waste heat available. Use with a petrol engine that is lighter than a diesel, gets a better power to weight ratio and economy closer to the diesel. They also make a lot of up market petrol engined cars so the price premium for the bottom cycle would be easier to absorb.
Adding a steam bottom cycle to a diesel engine will certainly improve its economy as well but the percentage gain may be slightly less.
Merchant ships have been using combined cycle energy systems for many years and make use of 65% to 85% of the energy in the fuel.
Road transport has a long way to go.
Graeme</HTML>
You might be onto something here. It is likely a new lightweight steam system will be lighter than the BMW bottom cycle components and give a similar amount of power.
Bottom cycles favour less efficient prime movers as these have more waste heat available. Use with a petrol engine that is lighter than a diesel, gets a better power to weight ratio and economy closer to the diesel. They also make a lot of up market petrol engined cars so the price premium for the bottom cycle would be easier to absorb.
Adding a steam bottom cycle to a diesel engine will certainly improve its economy as well but the percentage gain may be slightly less.
Merchant ships have been using combined cycle energy systems for many years and make use of 65% to 85% of the energy in the fuel.
Road transport has a long way to go.
Graeme</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Rick (IP Logged)
Date: June 03, 2006 08:35PM
<HTML>Graeme:
In response to your query, I happen to be working on a Steam Scooter for many of the same reasons you mentioned. I can provide you a article that explains the concept. I call it the Clam because of the shape of the Air Pre-heater on the top of the boiler. The system is designed to integrate into a motorcycle frame and looks similar to a motorcycle engine.
Feel free to email me and I can send you pictures and articles where I'm at so far.
It is expensive to get machining done and recently I just bought a Bridgeport to help make some of my own parts. I need lathe work done to produce my tube sheets for the boiler.
Boiler resembles a Stanely and is 8 X 14 inches. The design incorporates an air pre-heater, economizer and super heater.
The traction engine resembles the Ropper with a cantilever rear wheel bearing arrangement.
I just recently joined the SACA for two years and waiting for the directory to come in.
Regards,
Rick</HTML>
In response to your query, I happen to be working on a Steam Scooter for many of the same reasons you mentioned. I can provide you a article that explains the concept. I call it the Clam because of the shape of the Air Pre-heater on the top of the boiler. The system is designed to integrate into a motorcycle frame and looks similar to a motorcycle engine.
Feel free to email me and I can send you pictures and articles where I'm at so far.
It is expensive to get machining done and recently I just bought a Bridgeport to help make some of my own parts. I need lathe work done to produce my tube sheets for the boiler.
Boiler resembles a Stanely and is 8 X 14 inches. The design incorporates an air pre-heater, economizer and super heater.
The traction engine resembles the Ropper with a cantilever rear wheel bearing arrangement.
I just recently joined the SACA for two years and waiting for the directory to come in.
Regards,
Rick</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Graeme Vagg (IP Logged)
Date: June 03, 2006 11:25PM
<HTML>Rick,
Thanks. I would like to see more details of your project.
I'm sure someone can help with lathe work.
My email address is: gvagg@apex.net.au.
Regards,
Graeme</HTML>
Thanks. I would like to see more details of your project.
I'm sure someone can help with lathe work.
My email address is: gvagg@apex.net.au.
Regards,
Graeme</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Graeme Vagg (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2006 02:16AM
<HTML>Rick,
Could you advise the sizes of components needed for lathe work and the turning operations required; eg Steel disc "x" diameter and "x2" thick, machined to size"x3" and/or bored out to "x4" dia.
Regards,
Graeme</HTML>
Could you advise the sizes of components needed for lathe work and the turning operations required; eg Steel disc "x" diameter and "x2" thick, machined to size"x3" and/or bored out to "x4" dia.
Regards,
Graeme</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Andy Patterson (IP Logged)
Date: June 05, 2006 07:56PM
<HTML>Hi Rick
You might be able to use a rotary table on your Bridgeport instead of a lathe. I have a 15" Clausing lathe. I wind up using a rotary table on my mill more that the lathe. It's a 15" tool makers rotary table, Cross axis on top of table. Need a small crane to lift it. Kidding. Engine hoist works fine.
Found it on eBay. If your are patiant, not in a hurry, You can get a decent rotary table cheap. Got mine for $260.00.
Andy</HTML>
You might be able to use a rotary table on your Bridgeport instead of a lathe. I have a 15" Clausing lathe. I wind up using a rotary table on my mill more that the lathe. It's a 15" tool makers rotary table, Cross axis on top of table. Need a small crane to lift it. Kidding. Engine hoist works fine.
Found it on eBay. If your are patiant, not in a hurry, You can get a decent rotary table cheap. Got mine for $260.00.
Andy</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Rick Heinig (IP Logged)
Date: June 07, 2006 05:00PM
<HTML>I have sent a set of pics to Graeme and if any one else is interested in my steam scooter project, I would be honered and willing to supply them. Your welcome to request if through my home email: rheinig@stny.rr.com
The lathe work I'm looking for is for the round tube sheet ends of my boiler design. I have had these 6 inch outside diameter (ODIA) X 1/4 inch thick (thk)copper disc made before (in Korea when I was under contract there). I considering having a batch made. The process would be to squeez say 6 7X7X1/4 inch square copper sheets between a 1/2 thk X 7 inch ODIA plastic expendable tool mounted in the chuck and same mounted on a live center to the tail stock. Then turn out qty 6 consistant dia parts to make 3 future boilers.
My boiler, call it the Clam, is similar to a Stanely Design (fire tube) but smaller and made from copper tube sheets and 6" K Copper schedul 40 drain pipe. I would like to market this design in the (hopefully near) future as an introduction to steam locomotion and possible offer kits to Custom Motorcycle Builders. The new Northamerican Clean Air acts in various states will require motorcycles to implement catalitic converters and sensors to improve exhaust emissions. Not sure how to market the Clam through SACA? Perhaps someone could elaborate on it?
Forgive me of the wandering, the Clam can be multiplied on a common base. In other words, there could be a single Clam (approx. 1/2 boiler Hp), a twin Clam (1 boiler Hp) and or configurations upto a V8 (4 boiler Hp). Each Clam would have individual pre-heater, economizer and supper heater and connected through manifolds. Each burner, a Primus multi-fuel, produces ~15,000 BTU running on unleaded. Higher enthalpy fuels will produce higher BTU's but thought that this simple design will work well.
I have had one boiler made. I have brazed together another and have materials for a third prototype. Always keeping a look out for low overhead machine work to be done. If any one would like to informally quote the lathe work mentioned above, I would be interested in reviewing it? No promises on giving out work ... I operate on a tight budget and would consider bartering.
I have cut out one tube sheet using my beautiful Bridgeport. I did it with a fly cutter modified to a 6 inch dia OD boring bar by brazing on a 1/4" carbon steel. I ran on the lowest speed and eventually completed the cut. The cut was rough on the machine, loud and didn't feel comfortable in the process. I will invest in rotary table eventually, just not in the budget at present.
By the way, I have about $40K invested in this venture over the past 3 years.
Kind regards,
Rick</HTML>
The lathe work I'm looking for is for the round tube sheet ends of my boiler design. I have had these 6 inch outside diameter (ODIA) X 1/4 inch thick (thk)copper disc made before (in Korea when I was under contract there). I considering having a batch made. The process would be to squeez say 6 7X7X1/4 inch square copper sheets between a 1/2 thk X 7 inch ODIA plastic expendable tool mounted in the chuck and same mounted on a live center to the tail stock. Then turn out qty 6 consistant dia parts to make 3 future boilers.
My boiler, call it the Clam, is similar to a Stanely Design (fire tube) but smaller and made from copper tube sheets and 6" K Copper schedul 40 drain pipe. I would like to market this design in the (hopefully near) future as an introduction to steam locomotion and possible offer kits to Custom Motorcycle Builders. The new Northamerican Clean Air acts in various states will require motorcycles to implement catalitic converters and sensors to improve exhaust emissions. Not sure how to market the Clam through SACA? Perhaps someone could elaborate on it?
Forgive me of the wandering, the Clam can be multiplied on a common base. In other words, there could be a single Clam (approx. 1/2 boiler Hp), a twin Clam (1 boiler Hp) and or configurations upto a V8 (4 boiler Hp). Each Clam would have individual pre-heater, economizer and supper heater and connected through manifolds. Each burner, a Primus multi-fuel, produces ~15,000 BTU running on unleaded. Higher enthalpy fuels will produce higher BTU's but thought that this simple design will work well.
I have had one boiler made. I have brazed together another and have materials for a third prototype. Always keeping a look out for low overhead machine work to be done. If any one would like to informally quote the lathe work mentioned above, I would be interested in reviewing it? No promises on giving out work ... I operate on a tight budget and would consider bartering.
I have cut out one tube sheet using my beautiful Bridgeport. I did it with a fly cutter modified to a 6 inch dia OD boring bar by brazing on a 1/4" carbon steel. I ran on the lowest speed and eventually completed the cut. The cut was rough on the machine, loud and didn't feel comfortable in the process. I will invest in rotary table eventually, just not in the budget at present.
By the way, I have about $40K invested in this venture over the past 3 years.
Kind regards,
Rick</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Andy Patterson (IP Logged)
Date: June 07, 2006 06:18PM
<HTML>Hi Rick
The sheats you need machined are simular to the fire tube on a Stanley. You have holes in them for the fire tubes. Right? Why not just mount them on a rotary table using the tube holes and cut with a regular mil cutter. You would have to drile th tube holes first. Or at least a few for mounting.
I have made parts where I have had to move my clamps during the machining. Clamp part down from on side and work the opsite. Then clamp from the opsite side, remove the first set of clamps, and machine the other half.
The discription you give of your boiler sounds a bit unsafe though. I prefer the once through monotube steam generaters for safety. Tube failure never leads to an explosion.
Andy</HTML>
The sheats you need machined are simular to the fire tube on a Stanley. You have holes in them for the fire tubes. Right? Why not just mount them on a rotary table using the tube holes and cut with a regular mil cutter. You would have to drile th tube holes first. Or at least a few for mounting.
I have made parts where I have had to move my clamps during the machining. Clamp part down from on side and work the opsite. Then clamp from the opsite side, remove the first set of clamps, and machine the other half.
The discription you give of your boiler sounds a bit unsafe though. I prefer the once through monotube steam generaters for safety. Tube failure never leads to an explosion.
Andy</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Graeme Vagg (IP Logged)
Date: June 07, 2006 08:59PM
<HTML>Rick,
Is there a Live Steam club or club member in your area? They would have someone who could quickly turn those discs on a lathe. Drill the centre hole and some of the other tube holes as Andy suggests and shear/cut off the corners so each sheet is nearly round but still oversize. You can hold them on a spindle in a chuck or with a draw bar against a face plate (with a soft backing disc) and just skim them down to size.
It is not a big job. I'd do it free if you were nearby. Exchange some milling time for lathe work would be a good barter deal.
Regards,
Graeme</HTML>
Is there a Live Steam club or club member in your area? They would have someone who could quickly turn those discs on a lathe. Drill the centre hole and some of the other tube holes as Andy suggests and shear/cut off the corners so each sheet is nearly round but still oversize. You can hold them on a spindle in a chuck or with a draw bar against a face plate (with a soft backing disc) and just skim them down to size.
It is not a big job. I'd do it free if you were nearby. Exchange some milling time for lathe work would be a good barter deal.
Regards,
Graeme</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: June 08, 2006 04:46AM
<HTML>Brazing? Since the boiler is made out of steel pieces, welding them sounds safer to me than brazing. When a person runs a boiler dry (out of water) it will get hot enough to warp the steel tube sheet. Hopefully the copper tubes will melt out before the brazing lets go. Does this happen often? No, but it has happened in the past to some of the unfortunates. It is called firing a boiler with out first checking the water level in it. The boiler heats up real quickly without any water in it.</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Rick Heinig (IP Logged)
Date: June 08, 2006 12:30PM
<HTML>Andy,
A small machine shop in Erie PA quoted me to perform the tube sheet complete on CNC Mill for $500. I like your idea to make the part complete on my milling machine, which buy the way has glass, elect scales and read-out. I plan to invest in rotary table, power drives and smart box to perform these operations eventually in production means.
So glad you mentioned about a Mono-tube boiler. I think that both mono-tube and fire tube are great boilers with each having a purpose. Reason for chosing fire-tube is because of the ability to store heat energy in the water. We all learned about Latent Heat in Thermodynamics and I refer to it as Thermo Inertia. I'm also trying to prove out a steam-electric hybrid concept where the vehicle uses dynamic braking to heat a resistive element in the boiler base, below the burner to potentially put heat back into the boiler stored as Potential Energy. The philosphy to make this idea work is to use direct drive through 4-bar linkage that allows a drive belt to turn an alternator. I have and plan to integrate a large car alternator into the scooter frame for dynamic braking. This arrangement will work as a power generator with the bike on its kick-stand.
You mentioned safety and I can't agree with you more about it. Every precaution should be taken to have a safe boiler in all conditions. I have good history being in charge of Gas Turbine Engine test cells. I've seen some real whoppers of failures and imagined how destructive the engine would be if not contained in cement walls. I've presure tested my first boiler to 150 PSI, bench tested it up to an operating pressure of 120 PSI without major problems. I'll explain later in response to SSsssteamer.
Graeme,
Like your suggestion about contacting a member near by. A very sincere thankyou for offering to perform the turning for free. I've performed free valued work before when its for a common good cause. I have a lot of respect for your type of individual.
I kind of thought you might be the one to respond to more commercial aspects of marketing steam products through SACA or other? Of course, I would like to hear from other peoples also?
SSsssteamer,
I appologize and may of mis spoke about the Clam design and use of materials. The boiler is a fire-tube with Copper 6X12 in K Pipe (wall is almost 1/4 inch thk), 1/4 inch Copper Tube Sheet and 26 Copper fire tubes at 1/2 in Dia Tube and one 3/4 in Dia Copper Tube. The assembly is brazed together. This is the plan for prototypes. You elude to a steal boiler and would like to investigate and try a fully SS and use these fancy tube sheet Tig Welders to make it. Tig welder is in the plans for future equipment.
I bench tested my first boiler with brass tube sheets. Brass has a greater coefficient of expansion and discovered small steam leaks around the fire tubes on the top. This was fired up to 120 psi and pressure released above that pressure.
Recently reading this forum and other areas that later model Stanely's fired upto 600 psi. I want to target 500 psi for this boiler design.
As mentioned earlier, I will be getting a SACA listing and will be contacting some members in or around Erie, PA and southern NY around the Elmira/Corning Area. I work at GE Transportation Systems in Erie and live in Horseheads, NY near Elmira/Corning.
Kind regards,
Rick Heinig</HTML>
A small machine shop in Erie PA quoted me to perform the tube sheet complete on CNC Mill for $500. I like your idea to make the part complete on my milling machine, which buy the way has glass, elect scales and read-out. I plan to invest in rotary table, power drives and smart box to perform these operations eventually in production means.
So glad you mentioned about a Mono-tube boiler. I think that both mono-tube and fire tube are great boilers with each having a purpose. Reason for chosing fire-tube is because of the ability to store heat energy in the water. We all learned about Latent Heat in Thermodynamics and I refer to it as Thermo Inertia. I'm also trying to prove out a steam-electric hybrid concept where the vehicle uses dynamic braking to heat a resistive element in the boiler base, below the burner to potentially put heat back into the boiler stored as Potential Energy. The philosphy to make this idea work is to use direct drive through 4-bar linkage that allows a drive belt to turn an alternator. I have and plan to integrate a large car alternator into the scooter frame for dynamic braking. This arrangement will work as a power generator with the bike on its kick-stand.
You mentioned safety and I can't agree with you more about it. Every precaution should be taken to have a safe boiler in all conditions. I have good history being in charge of Gas Turbine Engine test cells. I've seen some real whoppers of failures and imagined how destructive the engine would be if not contained in cement walls. I've presure tested my first boiler to 150 PSI, bench tested it up to an operating pressure of 120 PSI without major problems. I'll explain later in response to SSsssteamer.
Graeme,
Like your suggestion about contacting a member near by. A very sincere thankyou for offering to perform the turning for free. I've performed free valued work before when its for a common good cause. I have a lot of respect for your type of individual.
I kind of thought you might be the one to respond to more commercial aspects of marketing steam products through SACA or other? Of course, I would like to hear from other peoples also?
SSsssteamer,
I appologize and may of mis spoke about the Clam design and use of materials. The boiler is a fire-tube with Copper 6X12 in K Pipe (wall is almost 1/4 inch thk), 1/4 inch Copper Tube Sheet and 26 Copper fire tubes at 1/2 in Dia Tube and one 3/4 in Dia Copper Tube. The assembly is brazed together. This is the plan for prototypes. You elude to a steal boiler and would like to investigate and try a fully SS and use these fancy tube sheet Tig Welders to make it. Tig welder is in the plans for future equipment.
I bench tested my first boiler with brass tube sheets. Brass has a greater coefficient of expansion and discovered small steam leaks around the fire tubes on the top. This was fired up to 120 psi and pressure released above that pressure.
Recently reading this forum and other areas that later model Stanely's fired upto 600 psi. I want to target 500 psi for this boiler design.
As mentioned earlier, I will be getting a SACA listing and will be contacting some members in or around Erie, PA and southern NY around the Elmira/Corning Area. I work at GE Transportation Systems in Erie and live in Horseheads, NY near Elmira/Corning.
Kind regards,
Rick Heinig</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Graeme Vagg (IP Logged)
Date: June 08, 2006 02:35PM
<HTML>Rick,
The initial post of this thread is also on the SACA discussion with a view to finding who is currently building, wanting to build or buy new small size steam systems. You are one of the few building but buyers are more in interested in cars. A finished working product is really needed to test the market potential.
Items for sale can be advertised on this web site, on other steam club sites linked to this one, in The Steam Automobile Club of America's Bulletin journal published two monthly or via on-line auction sites such as E-Bay.
I haven't built fire tube boilers for myself but have been a club boiler inspector for a group of model engineers in my area. Your tube plates could be made quickly for a relatively low cost. The CNC milling quote does not sound reasonable unless there was a lot of programming and set up time required for the first one, but after that the unit cost should be small. You would not be able to sell boilers at an affordable price if production costs of that magnitude were involved. I note you have unique requirements for the boiler in you demonstation/experimental project. A heat/energy balance of your system will be needed when it is running and this would guide the direction where changes may be worthwhile.
Wishing you all the best with it.
Regards,
Graeme</HTML>
The initial post of this thread is also on the SACA discussion with a view to finding who is currently building, wanting to build or buy new small size steam systems. You are one of the few building but buyers are more in interested in cars. A finished working product is really needed to test the market potential.
Items for sale can be advertised on this web site, on other steam club sites linked to this one, in The Steam Automobile Club of America's Bulletin journal published two monthly or via on-line auction sites such as E-Bay.
I haven't built fire tube boilers for myself but have been a club boiler inspector for a group of model engineers in my area. Your tube plates could be made quickly for a relatively low cost. The CNC milling quote does not sound reasonable unless there was a lot of programming and set up time required for the first one, but after that the unit cost should be small. You would not be able to sell boilers at an affordable price if production costs of that magnitude were involved. I note you have unique requirements for the boiler in you demonstation/experimental project. A heat/energy balance of your system will be needed when it is running and this would guide the direction where changes may be worthwhile.
Wishing you all the best with it.
Regards,
Graeme</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Ben (IP Logged)
Date: June 08, 2006 05:03PM
<HTML>PLEASE,,,,Please,,,,,Watch the strength of copper aloys as temp goes up,,,,Also please note all Stanley boilers were wire wrapped,,,,w/ several layers,,,,,CAREFULLY wound on,, ,Ben</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Terry Williams (IP Logged)
Date: June 10, 2006 01:30PM
<HTML>I've been thinking of a steam motorcycle. Got a chassis. Many of the problems are shared with one piece steam outboards.</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: June 10, 2006 03:56PM
<HTML>Terry, For your motor cycle, are you again going to be carrying a 5 gallon plastic bucket with wood scraps for fuel with you too? :-) Your steam outboard is the best performer that I have ever seen. And it is compact too. For those that have not seen it, it is completely self contained and fits on the back of a small boat like any outboard would. The firebox looks like a rural mail box and you insert wood fuel scraps into it like letters into a mail box. And it hauls butt very well. Sincerely, Pat Farrell</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Graeme Vagg (IP Logged)
Date: June 10, 2006 08:09PM
<HTML>Terry,
My system concept is based on a steam outboard design for 3 to 15hp that is easy to adapt to equipment using industrial petrol engines made by the million. The boiler and flue position on a motor cycle needs special thought. The other change is fitting an air cooled condenser.
Articles on the Hubbard and Field steam motorcycles indicate around 6 to 8 hp was a typical power level and that is right in the range of an outboard, fire pump, gen set or ORV engine. Even fractions of one horsepower will get you running. Electric bikes are only using motors from 180 watts to 600 watts.
There is plenty of scope for something light, simple and inexpensive to fill gaps in the steam power applications, with a scaled up version being able to run a car.
Saddle bags for wood chips might be easier to manage than a bucket. I think Roper had coal in his and shared recreation time with a steam boat or two.
Regards,
Graeme</HTML>
My system concept is based on a steam outboard design for 3 to 15hp that is easy to adapt to equipment using industrial petrol engines made by the million. The boiler and flue position on a motor cycle needs special thought. The other change is fitting an air cooled condenser.
Articles on the Hubbard and Field steam motorcycles indicate around 6 to 8 hp was a typical power level and that is right in the range of an outboard, fire pump, gen set or ORV engine. Even fractions of one horsepower will get you running. Electric bikes are only using motors from 180 watts to 600 watts.
There is plenty of scope for something light, simple and inexpensive to fill gaps in the steam power applications, with a scaled up version being able to run a car.
Saddle bags for wood chips might be easier to manage than a bucket. I think Roper had coal in his and shared recreation time with a steam boat or two.
Regards,
Graeme</HTML>
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: Landrocket (IP Logged)
Date: July 04, 2007 05:57PM
Graeme,
I would be very interested in building a steam motorcycle.
What progress has there been since June 2006
Regards
Whitworthsocket
I would be very interested in building a steam motorcycle.
What progress has there been since June 2006
Regards
Whitworthsocket
Re: Steam Motorcycles
Posted by: a22stanley (IP Logged)
Date: July 09, 2007 09:20PM
I have a steam bike built by Roger McGuire. I agree with Pat Farrell that the boiler should be welded not braysed together. The boiler in Roger's bike is a porcupine type with several flues in it. It is all welded togetherand works very well. It will make steam in about 3 miniutes and run very nicely at 20 or so m.p.h.
CWR
CWR
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.