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General Steam Car topics
No Cylinder Oil
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: April 09, 2002 08:33PM
<HTML>Peter Brows mention of no cylinder oil in the Stanley Steamer hit on a topic I am working on for my project. I figured a new topic on the forum was in order or you might need a road map to find it. I want to eliminate cylinder oil in my engine by the use of nickle-silicon-carbide electrofusion cylinder coating with compression and piston guide rings that require no lubrication. Graphitar rings can take about 700 degrees F. but are fragile and will fracture when crossing any cylinder ports, not ment for a unaflow. Another option is tetrafloroethylene (TFE), this material is more like a medium hard plastic that is given body by fillers such as bronze or fiberglass. It is limited to about 500 degrees F., which is above my design temperature, but may or may not take port crossing without failure. The last chance in my lineup is the use of metal rings that have a moly face or chrome plating. The metal rings will wear out but there is no temperature trouble till about 750 degrees F. and port crossing is not an issue. The electrofusion plated cylinders will not wear and the surface finish can be varied to suit the rings optmium parameters. I will have to try the options and see where I end up. I can't find any more books to read on the subject so it is time to experiment.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: No Cylinder Oil
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: April 10, 2002 02:18PM
<HTML>Peter,
Now you really touch on a subject dear to my heart. Any oil in a condensing steam system is one of the worst possible things that influence the efficiency, particulary the condenser. Not to minimize the problems of carbon in the monotube, although the Lamont seems to eliminate this. Oil is a very bad thing in a condensing Rankine cycle system.
Any plastic composite ring is going to severely limit your upper temperature and thus the cycle efficiency. A SERIOUS MATTER.
Cylinder coating is a good thing to investigate as long as the coating will not prevent the rings from ever sealing. Doble F-30 once had homemade hard chrome plated bore cylinders, and NO ring would ever seat and thus seal in those cylinders. It now has original Doble iron cylinders. This goes for hard chrome rings too.
Don't abandon Graphitar or graphite/powdered metal rings just yet. Consider unaflow exhaust ports that are milled at an angle, the transition for the ring is then almost seamless. But; with graphite rings, the pistons must always be absolutely centered in the bore or they wear out rapidly. This means good crossheads. You want constant radial ring loading. A single acting engine is thus a bad way to go with graphite rings. And, you need lots of them on the piston.
I went all through this myself and now you know why I am investigating a turbine again, although they have severe off design peak efficiendy losses. There are one or two turbine designs that may (?) offer a solution coupled with a CVT transmission for better load match. Even if it means using toluene as the working fluid in order to drastically bump up the turbine efficiency. Another subject for endless debate. The endless tradeoff analysis!!
We shall see.
Jim</HTML>
Now you really touch on a subject dear to my heart. Any oil in a condensing steam system is one of the worst possible things that influence the efficiency, particulary the condenser. Not to minimize the problems of carbon in the monotube, although the Lamont seems to eliminate this. Oil is a very bad thing in a condensing Rankine cycle system.
Any plastic composite ring is going to severely limit your upper temperature and thus the cycle efficiency. A SERIOUS MATTER.
Cylinder coating is a good thing to investigate as long as the coating will not prevent the rings from ever sealing. Doble F-30 once had homemade hard chrome plated bore cylinders, and NO ring would ever seat and thus seal in those cylinders. It now has original Doble iron cylinders. This goes for hard chrome rings too.
Don't abandon Graphitar or graphite/powdered metal rings just yet. Consider unaflow exhaust ports that are milled at an angle, the transition for the ring is then almost seamless. But; with graphite rings, the pistons must always be absolutely centered in the bore or they wear out rapidly. This means good crossheads. You want constant radial ring loading. A single acting engine is thus a bad way to go with graphite rings. And, you need lots of them on the piston.
I went all through this myself and now you know why I am investigating a turbine again, although they have severe off design peak efficiendy losses. There are one or two turbine designs that may (?) offer a solution coupled with a CVT transmission for better load match. Even if it means using toluene as the working fluid in order to drastically bump up the turbine efficiency. Another subject for endless debate. The endless tradeoff analysis!!
We shall see.
Jim</HTML>
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