The question has come up as to how long it took to build and assemble an average Stanley car during the company's operation. The question has me stumped, and I wonder if anyone else has puzzled over this. Judging from compiled production figures, it looks like the company produced, on average, two cars per day in a good year (assuming that the factory was in operation about 310 days per year). Factory photos, however, show numerous cars being worked on simultaneously, in various stages of assembly and testing, so the "average" daily production may have been quite different. Kit Foster has noted that the Stanleys rarely did anything "on average" and this might be another example. Anyone want to venture a guess as to how long it took to make a Stanley?

Hi Jim,,,I think first thing to define is '''are we looking for man hours to assemble all the components,,or time to make all componente AND assemble,, Ford advertized a short time to make a ''T'' but I suspect it didnt include making spark plugs,,coils,,and maybee the engine,,,,JUST the final assembly,,,,So much more goes into it,, I can't recall if we have found if Stanley had the deep drawing presses to make a boiler shell..or if they bought the boilers and wound them in house,,,I have seen suitable presses in Manchester Nh,BUT it was almost 20 years later before I realized what I had seen,,, WOW They were impressive,, A lathe hand in the machine shop wage I guess was about 10 cents an hour in 1910,,My source,,C,A,McConney,, and Fred Hartung,,both tradesman at that time,, Interesting subject,,,Cheers Ben

Jim are their any records as to what parts were made out sourced and if any were made in house.

Rolly

Hi Ben. Right now, I'd settle for how much time it would ordinarily take to assemble all the parts and build up a new Stanley. Time spent manufacturing the components leads to another interesting time-estimating problem, because Stanley certainly made far more parts than they made cars, stocking replacement boilers and just about everything else. In fact one of the family stories alleges that F.E. Stanley hired his son-in-law, Ed Hallett, to help oversee operations at the factory because some of the workers were apparently making off with enough parts to build their own cars, and with F.O. out sick in Colorado, F.E. couldn't keep an eye on everything all the time. Now there's another question: how many contraband Stanleys were actually built, if any? - Jim

Jim,

In the 1960's an employee of Austin was found guilty of making an Austin Healey 100 from parts he had stolen!

Another thought - presumably Stanleys like most cars of the coffin nose era were hand painted by brush then lined and varnished. That would have been a slow process since they were not like Fords confined to a quick drying black. Are there any pictures of the paint shop or other information on this? Many present day restorations use modern two pack paints - they look horribly plasticky and quite wrong.

Mike

Jim are their any records as to the number of emploies that worked at the fractory in any given year.
If the rear end and front end, engine and boiler were all complete as units, the bodies finished and painted were shipped in from Amesbury, I think two men could assumable a coffin nose car in a week, or less. Or eighty hours per car start to finish.

Rolly

George Green of NJ painted Curtiss Blake's curve dash OLDS,,paint and varnish,,was at Maj,Goyette's fallrun[ and birthday party] 1951 Peterborough NH It was the shiniest gloss I hadever seen,,,it was years later when I would see this shine again,,,the multi layer,DEEEEP gloss on a candy apple CHOPPER,,,wow,, Now I knew what the old timers were talking of,,,After a few years,,or sooner, of course the varnish looses its luster,,,and thats what we see today,,There was large warehouse space devoted to drying paint,,,probably heated too,,Cheers Ben

Ben the 1904 Curved Dash Olds at Frank's auction sold for $40,000

It was always my understanding that the "colored" paints of the late 1800s early 1900s were lacquer. Colored enamels simply didn't hold up - except for black. Which was why Ford used black - easy and quick to apply, very durable. did not craze when impacted. Lacquers can be made in gorgeous colors and with several coats of clear lacquer give that "depth" - which can't be achieved with enamel. Lacquer does not, however, do well with frequent washing, being struck with flying rocks, etc. Hence the black enamel fenders on most early motor cars

The NEW Nitro-Cellulose Laquer was introduced on Packard cars for the season of 1928,, Prior to that it was paint and varnish,, The nickel -chrome change was about the same time,,Cheers Ben

Rolly,

There are estimates that at peak production the Stanley factory could've employed as many as 300 workers. I've gone through Census records, Watertown Street Directories, archival references, and correspondence from relatives who contact the Stanley Museum, and I've barely come up with 200 names spanning the company's entire history. And that list includes employees not directly involved in manufacturing, such as: clerks, stenographers, bookkeepers, shippers, salesmen, telephone operators, draughtsmen, night watchmen, management, and the company's chauffeurs/demonstrators (who supposedly could fire-up a Stanley in 10 minutes). On the manufacturing end there are listed: machinists, repairmen, blacksmiths, wheelwrights, boilermakers, steam fitters, bench hands, and painters. Some are listed under the department they worked in, such as the Boiler Dept., the Brass Dept., and the Turret Dept., but often even that information is lacking. I think they worked twelve-hour days during the coffin-nose period, maybe more. After the Twins retired the average work day dropped to nine hours (50 hours per week) and that may have affected the factory's production output as well.

Jim

Hi Jim,,,I'll try to add a little Re your post of Oct 3,,There is certainy a difference between car serial no and engine no etc,,It is my belief in addition to replacement engines they were selling engines much as one would sell electric motors,,as we have heard of them being used in mining and quarrey engines [ off the Maine coast ] In the case of serious crash [ or fire ] it would appear the car was shiped to Watertown and rebuilt,keeping the original vin tag,,this would explain why we find 1902 hardware mixed w/ 1904 body style,,the cars are said to be all original,,because the work was done before 1910 ,,but they are modified nevertheless,,An old quote I recall was " they jacked up the rediator cap and slid a new car underneath " so the concept was there,, I doubt any whole cars were made in the back alley,, but there was a rumor of parts available long after the factory was closed,,I have a 6" vice that I got from the garage of Steve Torres Dana st Cambridge,,When I told Ralph VanDine, his eyes lit up,,That was a vise from the Stanley Factory," I think Ralph said he bought it at the auction, however I don't recall any sad story of the auction,,was there one ??? They: closed, auction, takeover sold or whatever,,There must have been a "downsizing" when SV took over,,then to PA,,Chicago, and Tommy Derr,,I never understood this part of the situation,,Have you been able to sort this part of the story??? It was said there were 6 partners that sold to Derr,,, Where were they working out of when this happend,,, And what of an address for Unit Railcar in Cambridge,,was this a lawyers office or separate plant?? Sorry this is not more helpful,,but every piece counts now,, And one more question,,,Have you found any mantion of Mr.Casey,, a test driver who tested the cars on Mt.Wachusett,,in the town of Princeton Ma,,about half hour north of Worcester,, and recorded performence and water rates etc,,on the trip to and from and on the hill,,,Mt W, is about 2,000 ft elev' This was around '20-'23 His son David was a classmate of mine at Concord,,'54 ,, Hope this may be of use,,,Cheers Ben

Hi Ben,

I don't know if the Steam Vehicle Co. had an auction in Watertown before they moved operations to Allentown, Pa. They supposedly decided to make the move when the city was going to extend Nonantum Street along the Charles River, taking and demolishing the old Stanley/Locomobile factory in the process. They apparently kept an office open in Watertown for a while after they moved. They did have an auction in Allentown on Sept. 14, 1926 when they went out of business. I haven't figured out the emergence of Derr et al from the company's ashes - that will take some more research.

I don't know what the Unit Railway Car Co. address in Cambridge was, but I suspect it was a business office, perhaps connected with Gray & Davis in Cambridge. Gray & Davis and American Bosch Magneto joined Stanley Motor Carriage and Laconia Car Co. in the Unit Car venture in 1919, after F.E. Stanley's death. The company had earlier post office boxes in Newton and Boston (Back Bay Station). They also had an address at 32 Alger Street, South Boston, which was between Dorchester Ave. and the Old Colony Division of the NY, NH, & HRR (New York, New Haven, & Hudson River Railroad - if I remember right). I don't know what's there at that address now. The Stanley factory was supposed to make the boilers, engines, condensers "and other apparatus" for the Unit Car in Watertown, and the Laconia Works was to build the bodies and running gear and install the power plants in New Hampshire. I have found one reference, however, of engines being installed in the cars in South Boston, so there may be more to that Alger Street address.

I find that Stanley Motor Carriage employed a W.H. Casey in the 1920s, but he was a draughtsman. I'm not sure if any of this is helpful, but I'll keep looking.

Jim

Dear All:

I have a sixteen-page Unit Railway Car Company trade catalogue, dated 1919. It lists the address as "Drawer 38, Back Bay Station, Boston, Mass." It also has three loose photos of the boiler, truck, and interior of the car. The boiler is not a Stanley style boiler.

Hope that helps!

Don Hoke

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Hi Jim,, Have you run across any mention of experiments with the FIRE on the rail car, I recall a conversation back when I was in school, about experiments with oil fires and an oil fire w/ COAL DUST mixed w/ the oil,, that lifted the water off the crown sheet,,I had thought of that for the racer,,but , well that will have wait for another day,, The Stanley fire tube RAIL boiler had 3/4" tubes as I recall, then they shifted to water tube,,Cheers Ben

Hey Darryl,,,are you reading this,,,,How long does it take to assemble a Stanley when all ALL the parts are ready to go,,,We need your input,,,,Cheers Ben Oh yeh,,heavy frost last nite,,