Hi all,

I'm making some progress on the burner -

- all 4414 holes drilled out to #54 (32 with drill bit fragments left in them)
- small hole drilled at the end of the 2 small cracks, to keep them from spreading
- burner grate pan crimped on
- new burner pan and fiber insulating sheets on hand
- old face plate cleaned up (still needs redrilled & tapped for pilot keeper screws)

I was pretty pleased with the way the inner pan went. I took the old inner pan and flattened the screwholes down to a little dot, then laid it on the new sheet metal and punched through those little holes. Then I cut an X across each punch mark to allow the metal to distort when the screws pulled it into the central rib of the burner grate. Screwed the uncut sheet metal onto the grate. Then I cut a tiny sliver of the sheet metal and wrapped it around the burner grate flange, with just as much wrap as I wanted. Then I re-flattened that, and learned how far out from the edge of the flange the sheet metal needed to be. Then I scribed that distance all the way around the flange. Took the sheet metal back off, cut it to the scribe mark, then screwed it back on.

I started the crimp with a medium weight hammer and bent it over about 90 degrees all around. Then started many gentle taps around and around to push the edge of the sheet metal down toward the flange surface. It curved beautifully - I only had to slit it at 4 places, each end of the straight sections. Finished up by squeezing it down all the way around with pliers. No busted cast iron!

But now I've run into a couple of questions. I'm trying to figure out how to get holes in the outer pan which will line up with the mixing tube holes in the grate. The best idea I've been able to come up with is -

1. Hold the face plate against the pan with its bottom edge resting on the rolled edge of the pan.
2. Mark the pan for cutouts that match the 4 face plate holes (mixing tubes, peekhole, vaporizer end) and the "frame" around the pilot.
3. Cut openings and drill holes in the pan, and mount the face plate.
4. Place enough insulation and blocking in the pan to raise the grate until its mixing tube holes align with the holes in the face plate.

Questions are -

Is this a good way to go about it?
What's a good tool for cutting those openings in the outer pan sheet metal?
Should the edges of the crimp be sealed somehow to the grate flange?

Thanks and Happy New Year!

Kelly

Kelly
I am not sure you have enough burn area. 4414 holes with a 54 drill only give you a burn area of 10.48 Sq inches. I had 6000 holes of the same drill size for 14.256 Sq inches and slotted grates have as much as 26 Sq inches.
Before you covered the bottom did you check to make sure the baffle plate was tight against the back of the burner? Also the tubes need to be at least six times the diameter long.

Rolly

Hmm. Maybe I shouldn't be using this grate? A recount still only yields 4405. (picture attached) Is this the wrong size for a 23" boiler? (boiler actually measure almost 24" across the top head) The grate measures 22 1/8" from edge to edge of the flange along the center rib.

The baffle plates were pretty tight, just a few hundredths' rattle against the rivet heads. I wrapped some fine wire under the rivet heads to stop the rattle.

Kelly
You have the right grate. It’s the same is was in my 1920. They came with the drilled grates. It’s the performance level you are satisfied with. I didn’t like stopping on hills waiting for the pressure to build up.

Rolly

Well, this is the first Stanley I've tried to get going. It had a Cruban burner in it previously, and was reputed to have pretty snappy performance. I don't think I want to start out with a weak fire.

Would you recommend drilling more holes? How does this pattern of holes compare to the one with 6000? I've seen this pattern of rows of 6 in other grates - would the added holes just go between the existing rows, or can this grate just never be made to produce much more heat that it does? I'd rather not enlarge the holes so much that it would risk howling.

The next larger hole size is a #53 and you will at first be getting tube fires by the flame front getting through by using the # 53 hole. After the burner holes have oxidized a bit, there isn't any problem of the flame passing through the #53 drilled holes anymore. Been there, done that. It looks like in your photo at about 2 o'clock that some of the holes are not cleaned out yet, but it probably is just the angle of the camera. What I would do if I were you is to finish assembly of this grate and use it. That can give you some hands on steam experience while you find another grate and then you can do a proper drill job on the new grate. You can then determine the performace that you hope to get out of your Stanley by using this grate now. I prefer a little howl out of my burner when it is cycled on. That way I know that the pilot light has not gone out, the jets are not plugged and that the burner is performing to it's expected level. If it howls too loud, then go to a smaller main jet size or decrease your main fuel pressure. They both directly affect the burner's howl.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2008 12:02AM by SSsssteamer.

I bought a whiteout pen at the office supply, one that only marked a dot. I laid holes between the other holes trying to stay at least 3/16 apart. Some my have been slightly closer.

I bought a magnet base and made up a small drill press for a Dremel tool. 20,000 RPM is a good speed for a #54 drill. I used jobber bits 0.030 each. I don’t think I used 10 bits on the whole burner. Most of the time I would get 3 to 4 hundred holes from one bit.

You can try the burner the way it is now, you can always add holes.
Good luck.

Rolly

Dear Kelly, in your first post you asked as to how to determine where to cut the tube holes in your pan, First find the pan's center. If your mixing tubes are short enough and you have enough room in you pan, drop your burner with insullation under it into your burner pan and drill a small hole as close to tubes' center as you can. Keep shuffeling the burner for the best centered fit in the burner pan. Also the top margin above the burner should be kept the same on all sides for a square burner to boiler fit. Enlarge the mixing tube holes until they fit the mixing tubes perfectly. The last burner pan that I bought had the mixing tube holes already cut into it. As they turned out, they were cut too low on the burner pan. They even extended below the mixing tubes' face plate. I hope that you won't have this problem. If your burner with mixing tubes will not fit into your burner pan without first cutting the mixing tube holes, set the burner on the work bench with insullation under it and make a paper templet that will both fit the front of the mixing tubes and also to match your bench top. This templet can now be put into the burner pan and be traced to the inside of the burner pan and now be cut out using the correct sized hole saw.

Dear Kelly, The drilled burner is Eric Gleason's Empire burner. Those are his photos of the Empire.

Dear Kelly, Attached are a couple photos of our slotted 30 hp Baker burner for our 1911 Stanley model 85. From these photos, they will give you a little better idea of the different types of burners.

Thanks Pat. Do you know if there's a source for that heat exchanger over the pilot on your Baker burner? I think I like it a little better than simply welding a large diameter piece of pipe onto the vaporizer there. And out front, were you able to build in an adjustment for nozzle-to-mixing tube distance?

Kelly,
Looks like the heat exchanger over the pilot is a piece of acme thread rod drilled out to fit over the vaporizer piping.
Am I right Pat?

Bob



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2008 12:32PM by mdsbob.

The part of the vaporizer that you are referring to, I call the "hot Dog" It usually is made from a slug of mild steel that your vaporizer line couples into on the inside of the burner. On the outside, the branch forks are welded into the hot dog. The one that I made is the same solid slug of steel usually used, but I took a 3/16" parting tool and I make the whole thing into a row of fins for the maximum surface area to catch the pilot light's heat. It has about a 1/2" hole drilled though the center for the 1/4" stainless cable to pass through. After the car has been sitting for a while, the hot dog's extra heat is appreciated when I first crack open the main fuel (kerosene). The extra heat helps to keep from flooding the burner. On this one the 1/4" schedule 40 black vaporizer pipe was screwed into the end of the hot dog and to hedge my bet, I welded it also. Just a screwed in vaporizer pipe into the hot dog is usually enough. With it also being welded, I don't expect to ever have a leaking problem with it. The burner is built to be easily dissassembled if necessary. The branch forks were adjusted to take in the added flares on the mixing tubes. The branch forks are adjustable by heating the 1/8" black pipe and bending it to fit your needs. I bought the burner pan, the burner grate and the pilot light from Alan Kelso. I built all of the rest. The inside burner wall is lined with high temperature stainless steel from Art Hart. The liner's top lip is turned horizontal to give a solid shelf to support the burner to boiler gasket. For a gasket material, I use the gasket rope that is sold for wood heater doors. I use the gasket rope over and over again. I usually can get 10 years or more out of a burner to boiler gasket. Small nails are pushed through the gasket and through the turned out lip to keep the gasket in place. We drive our Stanleys year round so they get well used.

Oh well, it was a decent guess. You could have nearly the same thing if you could find an old piece of acme threaded rod the approx. dia. Might even be less effort than cutting the "fins" with a parting tool. All that would be needed would be to drill the hole through.
Bob

But likely to be difficult to weld to the vaporiser tube as anything machined in the form of an acme thread is likely to be made of carbon or alloy steel and welding would risk cracking at the joint which is already a problem even with mild steel or stainless.

Mike