1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
Engine Braking
Posted by: Kobus van Jaarsveld (IP Logged)
Date: December 26, 2001 02:30PM
<HTML>
The old man who supervised my conversion to steamcars told me never to depress the left pedal to the reverse position while travelling forward. I have however naughtily flirted with that pedal a bit lately. I find that on long downslopes when I know the two drums at the back are getting hot, depressing the pedal fully with steam throttle closed and the engine blow-off ditto, that there is a welcome retardation effect.
Can someone please give me the do's and don'ts of this practise. What are the risks?
Kobus vJ</HTML>
The old man who supervised my conversion to steamcars told me never to depress the left pedal to the reverse position while travelling forward. I have however naughtily flirted with that pedal a bit lately. I find that on long downslopes when I know the two drums at the back are getting hot, depressing the pedal fully with steam throttle closed and the engine blow-off ditto, that there is a welcome retardation effect.
Can someone please give me the do's and don'ts of this practise. What are the risks?
Kobus vJ</HTML>
Re: Engine Braking
Posted by: Jeff Theobald (IP Logged)
Date: December 26, 2001 11:54PM
<HTML>Hi Kobus,
I always use the reverse pedal on the Brooks when going down a long hill, but I have to keep the drain cock open, if I close it at normal speed the engine complains bitterly, and you must remember on a long hill to release the pedal and close the drain cock and give a shot of regulator to keep the valves and pistons lubricated.
I have also used this practice on my other cars and find that on some you can keep the drain cock closed, while others you can only use this in an emergency, we had a Stanley CX a few years ago and on this car you could use the brake until the heat caused the brake to snatch then into reverse until the back pressure made the engine complain and then back to the brakes, this was only needed on long steep hills, over the years I have formed the opinion that this difference is due to the general condition of the engine, if it is good and tight then you can use reverse without any complaints, which in turn say's to me that this practice must put a strain on the engine, but I have never had an engine fault that can be said to have been caused by useing the reverse pedal, hope this help's, Jeff.</HTML>
I always use the reverse pedal on the Brooks when going down a long hill, but I have to keep the drain cock open, if I close it at normal speed the engine complains bitterly, and you must remember on a long hill to release the pedal and close the drain cock and give a shot of regulator to keep the valves and pistons lubricated.
I have also used this practice on my other cars and find that on some you can keep the drain cock closed, while others you can only use this in an emergency, we had a Stanley CX a few years ago and on this car you could use the brake until the heat caused the brake to snatch then into reverse until the back pressure made the engine complain and then back to the brakes, this was only needed on long steep hills, over the years I have formed the opinion that this difference is due to the general condition of the engine, if it is good and tight then you can use reverse without any complaints, which in turn say's to me that this practice must put a strain on the engine, but I have never had an engine fault that can be said to have been caused by useing the reverse pedal, hope this help's, Jeff.</HTML>
Re: Engine Braking
Posted by: Jeff Theobald (IP Logged)
Date: December 26, 2001 11:57PM
<HTML>Hi Kobus,
I always use the reverse pedal on the Brooks when going down a long hill, but I have to keep the drain cock open, if I close it at normal speed the engine complains bitterly, and you must remember on a long hill to release the pedal and close the drain cock and give a shot of regulator to keep the valves and pistons lubricated.
I have also used this practice on my other cars and find that on some you can keep the drain cock closed, while others you can only use this in an emergency, we had a Stanley CX a few years ago and on this car you could use the brake until the heat caused the brake to snatch then into reverse until the back pressure made the engine complain and then back to the brakes, this was only needed on long steep hills.
Over the years I have formed the opinion that this difference is due to the general condition of the engine, if it is good and tight then you can use reverse without any complaints, which in turn say's to me that this practice must put a strain on the engine, but I have never had an engine fault that can be said to have been caused by useing the reverse pedal, hope this help's, Jeff.</HTML>
I always use the reverse pedal on the Brooks when going down a long hill, but I have to keep the drain cock open, if I close it at normal speed the engine complains bitterly, and you must remember on a long hill to release the pedal and close the drain cock and give a shot of regulator to keep the valves and pistons lubricated.
I have also used this practice on my other cars and find that on some you can keep the drain cock closed, while others you can only use this in an emergency, we had a Stanley CX a few years ago and on this car you could use the brake until the heat caused the brake to snatch then into reverse until the back pressure made the engine complain and then back to the brakes, this was only needed on long steep hills.
Over the years I have formed the opinion that this difference is due to the general condition of the engine, if it is good and tight then you can use reverse without any complaints, which in turn say's to me that this practice must put a strain on the engine, but I have never had an engine fault that can be said to have been caused by useing the reverse pedal, hope this help's, Jeff.</HTML>
Re: Engine Braking
Posted by: David K. Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: December 27, 2001 12:39PM
<HTML>There are two problems with using reversed engine braking. First, you are,in effect, using an air compressor wihtout cooling the cylinder or feeding any oil. As Jeff has said, it is essential to feed enough oil laden steam to lubricate the valve from time to time.
The other problem can occur in condensing cars, like the Brooks. If there is any water lying in the pipe between the engine and the condensor, it could be sucked into the engine when you reverse it. If this happens at any speed whatsover, the result is disastrous! It happened to me coming slowly down a parking garage ramp and I had to drive home on one cylinder, after removing the bent connecting rod and disconnecting one valve rod.</HTML>
The other problem can occur in condensing cars, like the Brooks. If there is any water lying in the pipe between the engine and the condensor, it could be sucked into the engine when you reverse it. If this happens at any speed whatsover, the result is disastrous! It happened to me coming slowly down a parking garage ramp and I had to drive home on one cylinder, after removing the bent connecting rod and disconnecting one valve rod.</HTML>
Re: Engine Braking
Posted by: Pat Farrell (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2001 02:32AM
<HTML>Dear Kobus, Reverse engine braking in the noncondensing Stanley is fine under 25 M.P.H. At speeds at over 25 M.P. H., my engines don't like the speed and they rattle. Over heating the engine until the steam cylinder oil is burning blue smoke can easily happen on a couple of miles of steep down hill and should be advoided for fear of engine damage. That is when you should take a break of reverse braking and let the engine cool off. I never open my steam chest valve while reverse braking for fear of loosing my lubrication and ruining my slide valves. (did that once too) To unload the resulting pressure, let up on the reverse lever momentarily to "burp" the engine. Occasionally open your throttle valve for lubrication. As David said, on condensing cars, be careful on using reverse braking with a full tank of water for fear of sucking water out of the exhaust and into the cylinders. This happened to our '16 condensing Mt. Wagon years ago and it blew two heads off the 30 H.P. engine. The owner had just topped off with water and as he decended a steep mountain road, he sucked the water back into the engine while reverse braking and you know the rest.</HTML>
Re: Engine Braking
Posted by: coburn benson (IP Logged)
Date: December 28, 2001 01:38PM
<HTML>Hi guys ,,Can someone call Bourdon to get some more input Vermont has steep hills an as I recall they used the links to resist hills up there,,,,,#2 item ,,,The engine acts like a toggle joint press in short cutoff ,,,SO ,pedal all the way down ,,OR all the way up ,,if there is any chance of water going through ,,,,,,DO not hook up cold!! You ned to open the throttle enough to blow the steam/water into the condenser ,,,that up hill pipe can hold enough water to kill a good engine thats for sure ,,, #3 ,,,Has anyone a reccomendation on the thickness of heads ,,,A thin one will break loose at a lower pressure and save the block ,,,Pat ,did u lose that block? How bad was it,,,,We will learn more from these errors ,,same as in racing,,, I have a 30 hp head that got a small ding right through when we turned the head off W/a brass drift I didnt measure it but it was thinner than I had thought,,,,A god idea I think ,,,,#4 Mt Wash'n COG as i recall they use reverse ,,, put a water feed in the ex pipe /n/feed the HEATED [stuff] back to the biler n/ all3? safty valves LIFT going down ,,,,I HAVE not whitnessd this my self but have heard of it ,,,It could have been on a older engine??? Railway To The Moon,,,as it was called See Kidders book,,,,#5 anyone played w/a steam piston on the brakes yet??Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: Engine Braking
Posted by: Kobus van Jaarsveld (IP Logged)
Date: December 30, 2001 02:40PM
<HTML>
Thanks everyone, much wiser now. What would happen if one fed a bit of steam into the engine while reverse braking?</HTML>
Thanks everyone, much wiser now. What would happen if one fed a bit of steam into the engine while reverse braking?</HTML>
Re: Engine Braking
Posted by: Jeff Theobald (IP Logged)
Date: December 30, 2001 09:11PM
<HTML>Hi Kobus,
Yes you can do this in an absolute emergency, but if you try it you will no doubt hear the engine complain, unless it is really tight, my Brooks does not like it at all, but Richard Roberts uses this method on his car all the time, and I know one or two other owners over here in the UK use this method of slowing down, hope this helps, all the best, Jeff.</HTML>
Yes you can do this in an absolute emergency, but if you try it you will no doubt hear the engine complain, unless it is really tight, my Brooks does not like it at all, but Richard Roberts uses this method on his car all the time, and I know one or two other owners over here in the UK use this method of slowing down, hope this helps, all the best, Jeff.</HTML>
Re: Engine Braking
Posted by: Ron Parola (IP Logged)
Date: January 02, 2002 10:01PM
<HTML>As an aside to oil separators and engine braking I also soldered a car radiator neck on the separator. One it'll blow off pressure above a set value ( I'm using a 7 lb cap) but also they vent vacuum the opposite direction, breaking the vacuum that could suck in water. Ron P</HTML>
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.