Hi, I wonder if you can help, I live in UK & I am looking to hopefully build a stem bicycle based off a mountain bike but driven by steam engine connected via the gearing system of the bike, on looking on web it appears at 1 Stanley produced a lococycle, is there still any plans, parts available for this, or indeed could you supply me any parts or recommend an engine design of a twin cylinder type that could be fitted into a mountain bike frame that would be suitable to propel it? & also any advise on a suitable boiler would be a great help, I would be looking to use gas firing for boiler.

Hope you can help
Thanks

Hi Dave,

Errol Cramer made a lot of steam bikes and for a while had a casting kit for sale.

His daughter is helping sell his things because of his bad health.

Here is a link to a thread she started about selling the bits.

[www.steamautomobile.com]

Caleb Ramsby

Hi Dave,

There is a lot of information on steam bikes here.... [www.steamcar.net]

regards, Jeff.

Hi i checked the link, but i didnt see anything for sale that could be used on a steam bike? is there anythin that i could use? please pm me with details

Thanks

still in need of more information & ideas, checked www.stemcar.net not enuf info on that, its mainly aimed at cras, not much info to help me on bikes, tried getting in contact with user from www.steamautomobile.com , items on that site, no info given as to what specification, dimensions, power etc, tried to e-mail using address given, e-mail was returned unable to deliver, need more helpfull info than these please guys

Hi Dave

There is plenty info, search on this forum [stanleysteamers.com] and on [www.steamcar.net] and [www.steamautomobile.com] and pics at [www.flickr.com]
But you won't be able just to buy something for your bike. Have you access to a lathe and welder?
Suggestions:
Plans for steam bike item SBG at [www.steamautomobile.com]

Some folk have tried Stuart Sirius 1/3 hp engines on bicycles. You may be lucky and find one on ebay or at [www.stationroadsteam.co.uk]
or even a set of castings at [www.stuartmodels.com]

For more power you could try a Stuart 5A at 1.5 hp, again try the sites above or
[www.steamboat.org.uk]

Next you need to consider what fuel, burner,boiler, water pump, lubricator etc.

Good luck
Brian

Dave,

Send "steam girl" a private message on the SACA site or just leave one on the thread she started about selling Errol Cramers items.

[www.steamautomobile.com]

Caleb Ramsby

Hi, i am considering use of Stuart steam engines, in particulr the Stuart No.4 would be a nice size to assemble into frame, i would be buying 2 & making a twin cylinder version tho as i want something more self starting, the only query i have with these Stuart engines is there power, i know they say the No.4 will produce aprox 1/8hp but if you read on other engines in there list the engines produce this power at high revs, my concern is what kind of pullin gpower they have at low speeds & from a standing start would they be of any good? if anyone knows more on this please let me know

David

Hi,,,,Steam engines have more torque / tractive effort at low speed than you expect,,I doubt youll need any of the gearchange chaine,,What speed are you looking for??,,If you gear say 4:1,,Youll probably not need self starting,,as you push off,, the power will be there / 6'per wheel rev/ x4,,so 1 engine rev is 18",,so 1 power stroke in 9" road travel,,you wont need much to get off dead center,,,Re steam,,,I hope you dont intend to tip it upside down and all,,What the kids do w/these things scares the hell out of old roadracers,,Look at that replica of the 1895 S,Roper bike,,,The original only weighed only 100# but was a low pressure plant,Keep it SIMPLE,,,Good luck,,Ben

Hi Ben, i'm hoping to have the engine self starting as i want it to fully drive the bike from a standing start & looking at fixing another sproket up on left side of centre axle of bike via a chain to another sproket from engine, giving aprox a 2 to 1 reduction down to 18 speed or21 speed mountain bike gear system, this hopefully giving plenty of torque & choice of gears to tackle a hill & also to give a reasonable turn of top speed in higher gears without havin to thrash the engine to hard & do you think a stationery marine launch type engine can give good torque at a low speed? because i need to be sure on this, please dont just say if your only thinking, please be sure, i'm aware that other types of steam enginecan,butasfor this type i dont know if there as powerfull & i need to be sure.
Thanks
David

Dave,

That is a rather open ended question. There are a lot of engine designs out there.

Here are two of them, with some rough calculations of their torque output at the max pressure with a reasonably long cutoff.

[members.pioneer.net]

Their Double simple engine, 2 1/2" bore by 2" stroke, max pressure 150, max rpm 750.

With a mep of 130(150 psi inlet and .86 expansion factor) and a card factor of .75 it would be 25 ft lbs of torque per cylinder or 50 for both cylinders. That is the average torque per revolution, the actual stall torque will depend on what crank angle there is and if only one or two of the cylinders are getting steam.

If you could supply that much steam at 750 rpm that would be around 7 hp, a bit more.

[hasbrouck.8m.com]

This one is a V twin, 1.875" bore by 2" stroke. 400 rpm max, 120 psi.

This with more or less the same parameters as above would make around 11 ft lb of torque per cylinder or 22 from both.

Now the Reliable engine will weight 87 lbs and the Hasbrouck will weigh 48 lbs. Neither of these are light.

A conservative figure for rolling resistance is 35 lbs per 1,000 of vehicle weight on grass or dirt, depending on tire size and width etc.

For a grade it equals, (n*W)/100 = resistance in lbs.

n: grade percent
W: vehicle weight

So for a 300 lb bike and rider weight on the flat that would be 10.5 lbs.

For a grade of 10% 30 lbs added, so 40.5 lbs total.

Figure the total gearing from the engine to the wheel, multiply the engine torque by that, then divide that by the tire radii in feet, that will give you the tractive effort. One should actually multiply the tractive effort by the percentage of friction losses involved between the engine and wheel also to get a more acurate figure.

Lets say the bike has 26" tires, that would be a 1.0833 foot tire radii.

Lets also say that the smallest front cog has 20 teeth and the largest rear cog has 30 teeth. Then the front would spin 1.5 times for each rev of the rear tire. Then also have a 2 to 1 ratio between the engine and the front cog set.

Multiply them together, that is three revs of the engine per rev of rear tire. Then you would need to divide this by 1.0833 to get the tractive effort. Roughly a ft lb of engine torque equals 2.77 lbs of tractive effort.

So on a 10% grade in solid dirt or grass, somewhere around 40.5 lbs of tractive effort are required, that would require 14.6 or about 15 ft lbs of torque from the engine.

On a flat paved road you would only required about 10 lbs per 1,000 vehicle lbs or 3 lbs of tractive effort to get going. That would be just over 1 ft lb of torque.

Note that these forces would just overcome the resistance and not provide much acceleration.

If I were you I would use the foot pedels to get going and then use the steam engine to keep going and accelerate further. That is what mopeds do.

Good Luck,

Caleb Ramsby

I believe that this is made from one of the Vesuvius bike kits.

[www.photoblog.com]

Looks like it could be placed in the frame and run via the crank sprockets.

Caleb Ramsby

ok maybe Vesuvius kit is adaptable, but can anyone tell me where i can purchase 1 of these kits or indeed the castings / parts etc to build 1 ?

Dave,

Errol Cramer supplied Vesuvius kits for years, now because of his health his duaghter is selling his thing.

You can contact her on the Steam Automobile Club of America Forum.

[www.steamautomobile.com]

Caleb Ramsby

as i already pointed out ta an earlier date, have tried contacting this person without success, more ideas opinions need & from other people please

Dave,

It seems that is has been a while since anyone has posted anything, but I know that that Coles Power Models in the United States that might be able to get you a Vesuvius Kit if there is enough interest in it, they don't list a price in there catalog, but it's in there and they just will order the kits in bulk to save money. Try contacting them
Also, the Sirius engines are known for there low steam consumption and they have a closed crankcase so there is less maintenance required for the engine

Good luck.

Sincerely,
Robert

Hello again Dave,
How is the project going?
I have acquired a bike designed by Richard Smith plans are SBD on SACA website.

It uses a spindle sitting on the wheel instead of a chain drive for simplicity and the bike is capable of running up to 350 psi and 600-700 degree steam using a stuart sirius and a monotube boiler designed by Richard Smith. I haven't gotten the bike working reliably yet resulting in poor milage, but I made a table that calculates power of the engine and then boiler power required and burner requirements, fuel requirements, and water milage, but so far I've gotten atrocious milage on fuel because I haven't gotten the bike to run long before I kick the pilot or other unfortunate things. I need to also get the spindle to grip better, which would increase economy as the engine would not be so wasteful. The engine may be outputing almost a horsepower at 225 psi and 2780 rpms opposed to the .3 hp at 80psi. Though >1/4 hp is probably reaching the rear wheel. If the engine has the rpm freedom its supposed to it just idles up to speed and any throttle and it slips, while if I lower the spindle it puts excessive pressure on the engine and reduces the engines rpm range and power drastically.

What I can tell you is Richard Smith understood boiler size to engine size and in the plans for it include many ways to set up the spindle/engine setup with at least 3 engines and his design was such you don't have to make any complex parts.
It is well worth the 18 bucks to invest in a design with people around who have built it successfully and with examples to look at.

Work Smarter not Harder

Robert Hopkins