1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
piston rings
Posted by: G. B. Gilbert (IP Logged)
Date: August 11, 2002 02:41AM
<HTML>I was looking at piston rings on the web, looking in vain for the spiral-shaped rings that were discussed on another forum.
Totalseal is the closest thing i can find.
Does anyone here have an opinion to offer on their suitability for double acting engines and steam roughly 700 psi and 700F?
[www.totalseal.com];
Totalseal is the closest thing i can find.
Does anyone here have an opinion to offer on their suitability for double acting engines and steam roughly 700 psi and 700F?
[www.totalseal.com];
Re: piston rings
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: August 13, 2002 01:24PM
<HTML>Gilbert,
Most automotive rings are designed to seal in one direction. They have a slight "cup and bevel" to the compression rings. This means that they "relax" on the downstroke. This would not be the best advantage for a double acting engine. A trick the antique engine restorers do is to put two modern 1/8" rings into the original 1/4" groove. (the greater flexibility also makes up for oval cylinder bore wear)
I think this could work well in a steam engine with two modern rings in one groove with the gaps at 180 from each other. Or you can purchase reproduction rings with a "step gap" from Starbolt 301-694-2821.
Clearances will be very important and should be researched and allowances made for materials and steam temperatures.
Dick</HTML>
Most automotive rings are designed to seal in one direction. They have a slight "cup and bevel" to the compression rings. This means that they "relax" on the downstroke. This would not be the best advantage for a double acting engine. A trick the antique engine restorers do is to put two modern 1/8" rings into the original 1/4" groove. (the greater flexibility also makes up for oval cylinder bore wear)
I think this could work well in a steam engine with two modern rings in one groove with the gaps at 180 from each other. Or you can purchase reproduction rings with a "step gap" from Starbolt 301-694-2821.
Clearances will be very important and should be researched and allowances made for materials and steam temperatures.
Dick</HTML>
Re: piston rings
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: August 13, 2002 01:27PM
<HTML>Gilbert,
I forgot to include my most important point. I think two new rings would work well if they were placed in the groove Back to Back or Face to Face.
Dick</HTML>
I forgot to include my most important point. I think two new rings would work well if they were placed in the groove Back to Back or Face to Face.
Dick</HTML>
Re: piston rings
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: August 14, 2002 02:28PM
<HTML>G. B.,
When I had my 1918 Stanley I had to make new pistons as the old ones had very badly torn threads, a disaster just about to happen.
I used spiral rings in the engine and it was as tight a seal as I ever saw, and I ran the car a lot.
I first saw them in a McCullogh chain saw engine, very thin, only two turns and the engines really sealed.
Just who makes them now I cannot say as I have not needed such rings for years. We used original factory new old stock in the Dobles, as we had boxes of them.
Jim</HTML>
When I had my 1918 Stanley I had to make new pistons as the old ones had very badly torn threads, a disaster just about to happen.
I used spiral rings in the engine and it was as tight a seal as I ever saw, and I ran the car a lot.
I first saw them in a McCullogh chain saw engine, very thin, only two turns and the engines really sealed.
Just who makes them now I cannot say as I have not needed such rings for years. We used original factory new old stock in the Dobles, as we had boxes of them.
Jim</HTML>
Re: piston rings
Posted by: George Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: August 14, 2002 02:40PM
<HTML> I believe guy who invented the "slinky" toy had originally developed his process to use them as piston rings. Made a lot of money on "slinky"s" but had no market for piston rings at that time.
Good to hear Jim that your use of multiple turn rings worked out so well.
Are you saying that Doble factory new old stock rings were spiral rings, if anyone would know it would be you.
Best, George</HTML>
Good to hear Jim that your use of multiple turn rings worked out so well.
Are you saying that Doble factory new old stock rings were spiral rings, if anyone would know it would be you.
Best, George</HTML>
Re: piston rings
Posted by: ronald parola (IP Logged)
Date: August 14, 2002 11:26PM
<HTML>Total seal makes a 2 piece ring for gas cars; they really seal well, also old hydraulic rings are stepped (iron) and seal well. I'm just using iron gas engine rings. Ron P</HTML>
Re: piston rings
Posted by: Rolly Evans (IP Logged)
Date: August 15, 2002 09:09AM
<HTML>I have always made my own rings. I like centrifugally spun Iron. A friend of mine had a lot cast. Now that he retired and got rid of his shop I don’t know where I could get small quantity of the stuff. I like wide rings with a 3/8 lap for the joint. I also like two rings in the same groove with the lap 180D to each other. On wide flat rings I add a 1/16 radius groove around the ring stopping short of the gap, like an oil or water groove. Also on large diameter rings like the seven-inch rings I made for the low-pressure cylinder on my large compound. The inside diameter is off set from the outside diameter. The backside of the ring is ¼” thick, and the gap side is 3/16” thick. This evens out the pressure all the way around the ring.
I have not made rings on engines with a higher pressure then 300 Lb but having disassembled a Bryan engine. The rings are 5/16” wide flat rings in separate grooves also with a 3/8 lap joint.</HTML>
I have not made rings on engines with a higher pressure then 300 Lb but having disassembled a Bryan engine. The rings are 5/16” wide flat rings in separate grooves also with a 3/8 lap joint.</HTML>
Piston Rings
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: August 16, 2002 12:38AM
<HTML>At our shop we buy direct from Hastings piston rings and I believe they are the worlds largest supplier of rings. We can order a 1 cylinder custom set and the turn around time is only one day longer than ordering a stock set. If it involves sealing cylinders, Hastings has built it. A lady named Dawn in customer service can help with all your needs at 616-945-2491 or you might try looking at [www.hastingsmfg.com]
Rolly is correct in the use of centrifugally cast iron for rings (where temperatures allow) and the best source is to buy cast engine cylinder sleeves of the right size and cut rings from it. There is no finer grained, high density iron that I have found to work with than this material and the sizes available are almost unlimited.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Rolly is correct in the use of centrifugally cast iron for rings (where temperatures allow) and the best source is to buy cast engine cylinder sleeves of the right size and cut rings from it. There is no finer grained, high density iron that I have found to work with than this material and the sizes available are almost unlimited.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: piston rings
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: August 16, 2002 01:10AM
<HTML>Rings can also be found from many companies such as Deves at deves.com
Hoerbiger Rings and packings at [www.hrp.hoerbiger.com]
Safety seal power piston rings at [www.sswesco.com]
Morgan CMP at [www.irishaustchamber.asn.au]
Kadon rings and seals at [www.kaydon.com]
Safety seal lists steam rings while Kadon and Morgan supplies some non metalic types.
Happy shopping
Peter Heid</HTML>
Hoerbiger Rings and packings at [www.hrp.hoerbiger.com]
Safety seal power piston rings at [www.sswesco.com]
Morgan CMP at [www.irishaustchamber.asn.au]
Kadon rings and seals at [www.kaydon.com]
Safety seal lists steam rings while Kadon and Morgan supplies some non metalic types.
Happy shopping
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: NEW piston rings
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: August 18, 2002 01:31PM
<HTML>I just found my reciept for another source for rings They are available from "The Otto Gas Engine Works" in custom sizes from 1" to 86". (THAT should cover it!) They also have over 50,000 rings in stock. I have purchased from them in the distant past and found the quality to be very good and they easy to deal with.
The Otto Gas Engine Works
2167 Blue Ball Road
Elkdon, MD 21921-3330
410-398-7340
www.dol.net/~dave.reed/otto.html</HTML>
The Otto Gas Engine Works
2167 Blue Ball Road
Elkdon, MD 21921-3330
410-398-7340
www.dol.net/~dave.reed/otto.html</HTML>
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