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Paxton Phoenix Steam Car
Posted by: Myron Vernis (IP Logged)
Date: September 02, 2002 12:32PM
<HTML>In the early '50's, Robert Paxton McCulloch tried to create an advanced grand touring car with steam power. He hired Abner Doble to do the power train development. The steam power plant got to mock-up stage and only one driving prototype was built (using a Porsche engine) before the project was abandoned. Does anyone have any info on this project and the whereabouts of Doble's work for this car?</HTML>
Re: Paxton Phoenix Steam Car
Posted by: Terry Williams (IP Logged)
Date: September 02, 2002 12:46PM
<HTML>THere is some information in the Steam Automobile magazine, Vol 4, no. 4, and Vol 5, nos 1 and 2. The steam plant was road tested in a 1953 Ford chassis. I talked many hours with Peter Scot-Brown about this project. Peter came to the US just for this project and was sponsered here by Abner Doble. Don't know where all the Doble notes are for this project, But Jim Crank probably does.</HTML>
Re: Paxton Phoenix Steam Car
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: September 02, 2002 02:38PM
<HTML>Myron,
The Paxton "Phoenix" steam car got far beyond just the arm waving stage, they built and ran in a test chassis, 53 Ford, around the plant. I saw the film of this.
Abner asked Alex Moulton if he had a good steam designer, and if he could spare him, as the McCullogh people were totally unaware of steam engines. That was Peter Scott-Brown, now deceased.
Project engineer Jim Dooley and Allen Bell wrote a good SAE paper on the project and Walton reproduced in his book. Book available from the Stanley Museum. Paper from the SAE.
Abner was, as usual, pushing the envelope as far as he could.
This is the ULTAMAX engine he talks about in his engine notes, available from SACA Storeroom.
Jim</HTML>
The Paxton "Phoenix" steam car got far beyond just the arm waving stage, they built and ran in a test chassis, 53 Ford, around the plant. I saw the film of this.
Abner asked Alex Moulton if he had a good steam designer, and if he could spare him, as the McCullogh people were totally unaware of steam engines. That was Peter Scott-Brown, now deceased.
Project engineer Jim Dooley and Allen Bell wrote a good SAE paper on the project and Walton reproduced in his book. Book available from the Stanley Museum. Paper from the SAE.
Abner was, as usual, pushing the envelope as far as he could.
This is the ULTAMAX engine he talks about in his engine notes, available from SACA Storeroom.
Jim</HTML>
Re: Paxton Phoenix Steam Car
Posted by: Terry Williams (IP Logged)
Date: September 02, 2002 02:53PM
<HTML>I'd like to see the movie, Jim. Does it show the time when the steam generator melted the aluminum fins off some the boiler tubing and ran molten aluminum over the shoes of the test driver? Peter S-B got an earfull after that episode. tw</HTML>
Re: Paxton Phoenix Steam Car
Posted by: Myron Vernis (IP Logged)
Date: September 02, 2002 03:59PM
<HTML>Jim & Terry,
Thanks for the info and resources. I'll definitely follow up on those. I have owned the actual Paxton automobile for a couple years now and was fortunate to acquire some of Brooks Stevens' (the designer of the body) original photos and information. I would love to reunite the car with some of the steam equipment planned for it. I think some of it was still around when McCulloch's shop was auctioned in '77.
Myron</HTML>
Thanks for the info and resources. I'll definitely follow up on those. I have owned the actual Paxton automobile for a couple years now and was fortunate to acquire some of Brooks Stevens' (the designer of the body) original photos and information. I would love to reunite the car with some of the steam equipment planned for it. I think some of it was still around when McCulloch's shop was auctioned in '77.
Myron</HTML>
Re: Paxton Phoenix Steam Car
Posted by: Terry Williams (IP Logged)
Date: September 02, 2002 04:32PM
<HTML>It's too bad Peter is no longer with us. He could have provided you with a wealth of information, such as that the steam development crew used electric golf carts (which they felt were too slow) to run around the factory to fetch things. Being good steam men, they hopped up the carts with extra batteries (and possibley other modifications) and were able to lay considerabe strips of rubber, and of course waste less time in travel.</HTML>
Re: Paxton Phoenix Steam Car
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: September 03, 2002 02:14PM
<HTML>Terry & Myron,
The film was shown at a SACA meet around 1962 or so in Southern CA, when Jim Dooley gave us a fantastic talk about the car, and the problems of working with the Imperial Abner Doble. Don't know what happened to it.
That melt down was in the dyno room, trying to run at 1100°F, another one of Abner's delusions. Blew out the fluorescent lamps and the suits were all jammed in the doorway trying to get out at once. Mack Sennett style.
The powerplant was supposed to have been sold or given to the Navy at the Point Mague (sp?) facility. Supposed to be classified, like the present "national security" B..S.. they use all the time when they don't want to answer.
Actually was supposed to have been used in a sneaky landing craft for the SEALS, from one source I had.
The Phoenix project is best forgotten. The Ultimax engine, while a clever design, was just another example of Abner trying out his ideas with other people's money. Just think about the packing gland between the crossheads and the pistons being totally inaccessable, unless you take the whole engine apart.
Jim</HTML>
The film was shown at a SACA meet around 1962 or so in Southern CA, when Jim Dooley gave us a fantastic talk about the car, and the problems of working with the Imperial Abner Doble. Don't know what happened to it.
That melt down was in the dyno room, trying to run at 1100°F, another one of Abner's delusions. Blew out the fluorescent lamps and the suits were all jammed in the doorway trying to get out at once. Mack Sennett style.
The powerplant was supposed to have been sold or given to the Navy at the Point Mague (sp?) facility. Supposed to be classified, like the present "national security" B..S.. they use all the time when they don't want to answer.
Actually was supposed to have been used in a sneaky landing craft for the SEALS, from one source I had.
The Phoenix project is best forgotten. The Ultimax engine, while a clever design, was just another example of Abner trying out his ideas with other people's money. Just think about the packing gland between the crossheads and the pistons being totally inaccessable, unless you take the whole engine apart.
Jim</HTML>
Re: Paxton Phoenix Steam Car
Posted by: Terry Williams (IP Logged)
Date: September 03, 2002 02:32PM
<HTML>Thanks for the clarification on the melted fins, Jim. The thing I remember best about that was that a shoe or pair of shoes got molten metal on them and were preserved for some time.
On the 1100 degree temperature, I have run that high several time in my outboard, and we ran 1400 degrees F. steam out of the boiler in Jim
Tangemans boat for a while one day. The engine involved had graphite piston, rings and valve.</HTML>
On the 1100 degree temperature, I have run that high several time in my outboard, and we ran 1400 degrees F. steam out of the boiler in Jim
Tangemans boat for a while one day. The engine involved had graphite piston, rings and valve.</HTML>
Re: Paxton Phoenix Steam Car
Posted by: I George (IP Logged)
Date: May 15, 2005 07:40PM
<HTML>This is very interesting as I wish to build a fast steam car and I see that steam would be a good alternative to building a big electric car, is this film still around and will it ever be put up on the internet?</HTML>
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