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surface blow off valve
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: October 28, 2002 01:01AM
<HTML>Hi,
I have a 1918 Stanley that I am trying to get going. It sat a number of years so now, after pressure testing the boiler, I am trying to get steam up. Before I do that though I have one more leaky valve to fix, it is the surface blow off valve on the left side of the boiler. I guess it is the later style, with the coarse threads exposed on the outside of the stem. I have had it off, and apart, but I can not seem to figure out how the stem seats and how it would be packed. Now it just kind of dribbles out a steady stream of water when I fill up the boiler. Any suggestions?</HTML>
I have a 1918 Stanley that I am trying to get going. It sat a number of years so now, after pressure testing the boiler, I am trying to get steam up. Before I do that though I have one more leaky valve to fix, it is the surface blow off valve on the left side of the boiler. I guess it is the later style, with the coarse threads exposed on the outside of the stem. I have had it off, and apart, but I can not seem to figure out how the stem seats and how it would be packed. Now it just kind of dribbles out a steady stream of water when I fill up the boiler. Any suggestions?</HTML>
Re: surface blow off valve
Posted by: Pat Farrell (IP Logged)
Date: October 28, 2002 03:21AM
<HTML>Your surface blow off valve has an unusual seat. It can be remachined to be like new again. I remachined mine and it now works fine. I do not hire out. Sorry. Frank Hix sent his in to the manufacture of the valve and they redid it for free. They are still in business.</HTML>
Re: surface blow off valve
Posted by: Rolly Evans (IP Logged)
Date: October 28, 2002 09:27AM
<HTML>Eric
Is the valve a Yarway Seatless blowoff valve.
Rolly</HTML>
Is the valve a Yarway Seatless blowoff valve.
Rolly</HTML>
Re: surface blow off valve
Posted by: c benson (IP Logged)
Date: October 28, 2002 02:02PM
<HTML>If the other blowoff are ok put in a plug an press on,,,IS THE SAFETY OK/// Also watch that the trottle dont leak too bad,,leave the engine drip open and see if the steam stops when ya close the throttle,,,,IF STARTING w/ fulll boiler ,, water will carry into the superheater and boil there so closing trittle may have a delayed action,,,Dont forget to blow enough water to get steam space before wandering out the drive,,,Watch for the oil guage to do its thing [depending on pump you have,,,] If you jack a wheel to watch things in motion Jack the RT wheel so the pump drive is working //an of course block the other,,,If You havent fired up before I give the following///Heat the pilot if not sure heat more,,,Its gasoline so it should take hold,,,if U tweek the screw more fluid will pass,,,,an cool the vaporizer,,so if its ok ,,leave it,,,,,10 to 20 min heatin' the hot dog ,,,try a 4sec shot of prime valve[gas to main fire] to get lit,,,do it again ,,,,Probably lit,, now open valve so y'a, hear its doing something,,,Watch the vapor at the main jets,,,,as it gets clearer,,close prime an try main fire,,DONT HAVE BOTH OPEN TOGETHER as main pressure can[usually is] higher,an ya dont want to put kero up the gas [pilot] pipe,,,If the kero vapor gets too wet close main valve an after pressure goes down some re/use prime mixing fuels in the vaporizer seems to work ok,,,it will always look too wet]]] NOW another,,,,If u have charged the bottles to say 60 #,,,and during starting,,,pressure falls below this,,AIR will go through ,,Mixture goes lean an POP a fire at the nozzle not good,,,shut down blow through pump handle an see if ya can put it out,,,,,,XXX now here I will comment,,,IMPORTANT if the vaporizer is hot there will be vapor,,,but if ya didnt heat the branch forks an' all, enough,,,it will be a liquid fire not a vapor fire,,,This can be a problem because w/no steam up ya cant back off the burnin pudddle!!!!So IF IN DOUBT heat 'er some more,,,then a little more,,,,Its safer,,,Look it all over good so U know where the valves are w/o going to the book ,,,Hope this helps some,,I know I've forgot some stuff,,,maybee the boys will add to this oh yeh crack the valve on the 2 automatics to get the air out they work w/ water an steam but not when airbound,,,Oh yeh if holding the car on a hill w/steam,,,,an ya roll BACK the rev pedal can go down by itself [pain to TOE is awful]]]now you are backing up w /pressure in steam chest,,,,,The links tend to go the way the engine is going DESPITE all those lil ball bearings that are supposed to be frictionless[go figgure]]] The only clue in the book is"""Use caution when backing''''' This is also why tail lamps are worth 2x or 4x the price of a front lampGood luck This info carrys absolutely NO gaurentte of anythin,,,,Keep ys posted how it is comming,,,Where are U,, Do we have any friends near by,,,Cheerio,,,Ben</HTML>
Re: surface blow off valve
Posted by: Pat Farrell (IP Logged)
Date: October 28, 2002 03:00PM
<HTML>The Blow off valve should be the Yarnway Seatless Valve made by the Yarnall - Waring Co. (still in business). Drains from mid-heigth in the condensing Stanley boiler. It's purpose when briefly openned, is to skim off the oil floating on the top of the water level in the boiler. A second and more important use for it is to determine if you have a safe level of water in your boiler before firing up (an oily kidney gauge can lie). By opening up this valve before fireing up, you will know by if water is pouring out, wheter you have at least a half a boiler of water or not. I rebuilt my valve by peaning the outside seat untill the inner hole was crowded undersize from the peaning. I then reamed the smaller hole to size and reassembled the valve. It holds tight.</HTML>
Re: surface blow off valve
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: October 29, 2002 12:04AM
<HTML>Hi Pat,
Rolly Evans sent me some stuff on the valve and I managed to get it all apart, took alot of heating with the propane torch to free up the floating packing washer, ended up twisting it free with a drill bit placed in the hole in it that I could reach from the side and then taping it out from below. Re- packed it (took a couple of tries to get it right) and it now seems to work fine. One chore done and about a hundred to go! Actually I think I am almost ready to try firing it up, I had the pilot burning OK yesterday and managed to light up the burner for a bit until the roar of it all got a bit unnerving. Put the smoke bonnet on today and might just wheel it out and try firing it up on Tuesday or Wednesday. Bob Ullrich is going to come over and lend a hand and make sure I do things right.</HTML>
Rolly Evans sent me some stuff on the valve and I managed to get it all apart, took alot of heating with the propane torch to free up the floating packing washer, ended up twisting it free with a drill bit placed in the hole in it that I could reach from the side and then taping it out from below. Re- packed it (took a couple of tries to get it right) and it now seems to work fine. One chore done and about a hundred to go! Actually I think I am almost ready to try firing it up, I had the pilot burning OK yesterday and managed to light up the burner for a bit until the roar of it all got a bit unnerving. Put the smoke bonnet on today and might just wheel it out and try firing it up on Tuesday or Wednesday. Bob Ullrich is going to come over and lend a hand and make sure I do things right.</HTML>
Re: valves
Posted by: c benson (IP Logged)
Date: October 29, 2002 01:34AM
<HTML>Hi,,,Don't forget to close the pilot ''door'' - thing - ,,when you get to full fire [or nearly] the flame can come out and it gets sucked right around into the ventouri POOP ,,, fire in wrong place,,,,If the vaporiser is good'n'hot ,,shuting off the burner will be more effective as you have a vapor fire,,,not drippy kero/fire,,,burning under the iron grate is not good at all,,,General caution ///If things get out of hand an' ya cant remember the BOOK,,,,,Turn all the valves off 'n stop to figgure where to go from there,,,XXXXX,,,,also ,You will discover it takes more fuel than you expect to get up steam from cold,,,XXXX another caution,,,DO NOT go to short cutoff with a cold engine,,,, In long cutoff ,, valves open 'n close at stroke ends,,,,,BUT ,,,, In short cutoff the valve closes the ex port before tdc and creats COMPRESSON but if there is water present there may be no room for the water to compress,, ,the steam will blow out the water as you move,,,and you can hear if the chest drip sounds wet,,as its just off its seat,,,you'll get familiar w/how soon things heat up ,,,sort of how long to boil coffee,,,,The blow downs always taste a bit of rust ,,a leaky whistle valve makes better tea,,,Keep us posted,, Ben</HTML>
Re: surface blow off valve
Posted by: Rolly Evans (IP Logged)
Date: October 29, 2002 10:58AM
<HTML>Eric
If I remember correctly your car had an Cruban Empire burner and pilot, did you retain this system.
Rolly</HTML>
If I remember correctly your car had an Cruban Empire burner and pilot, did you retain this system.
Rolly</HTML>
Re: surface blow off valve
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: October 30, 2002 02:10AM
<HTML>Yes, it still has the Empire burner and pilot, we just tried to get it going today, pilot has too much yellow flame and not enough blue so will have to fiddle with it some. Did manage to get the burner going for a little while though before it blew out the pilot. Have the pilot out now and put some copper washers in place to help seal things up some, hope that works.</HTML>
Re: valves
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: October 30, 2002 02:18AM
<HTML>Bob and I spent a couple of hours trying to fire it up but the pilot, an Empire pilot as well as the Empire Burner, was a bit weak and irregular, so it kept blowing out. A lot of yellow flame along with the blue, so, added a valve to give a bit more fine tune control and put in some copper washers and gaskets to try and seal some leaks, will try again and see what happens.
PS, how much oil do you put in the engine case, it says something about 6 quarts and that it should be about an inch deep in the case, is that right? Also, is the pump drive housing supposed to be filled up to the top, if not how deep? Thanks, Eric</HTML>
PS, how much oil do you put in the engine case, it says something about 6 quarts and that it should be about an inch deep in the case, is that right? Also, is the pump drive housing supposed to be filled up to the top, if not how deep? Thanks, Eric</HTML>
Re: valves
Posted by: Pat Farrell (IP Logged)
Date: October 30, 2002 05:02AM
<HTML>On level ground, 6 quarts will stand about an inch deep when you stick it. In my pump drive, I put about a teaspoon of oil in about every 300 miles or once a week. It then drains out through the engine. This gives your pump drive the needed lubrication. If you don't drive 300 miles a week, then you should oil it on longer intervals. Your owners manual covers this regular pump drive service. If you do not have an owners manual, a new one should be able to be purchased through the Steam Automobile Club store room.</HTML>
Re: valves/ now Cruban?
Posted by: c benson (IP Logged)
Date: October 30, 2002 12:55PM
<HTML>Hi gang,,,Is this Empire the one w/the cast iron door?? Some of these were intended to use Kero' in the pilot,,,If so this could contribute to rich lean broblems,,,,Did you get as far as getting a good VAPOUR at the pilot nozzle,,??XXXX gen'l note,,,there was a cruban pilot for the STANLEY burner not to be confused w/ the whole Cruban/Empire setup w/the cast door,,,,The 26 '' setup was a different design ,, ie parts dont interchange,,,,,Hope this helps,,,Ben</HTML>
Re: valves/ now Cruban?
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: October 30, 2002 02:02PM
<HTML>Yes, it is the empire with the door, the copy of the info that I have on the pilot says it will work with kerosene or with gas, it was easier for me to get gas so I thought I would try that first. I will try refitting it today and see if I get a better flame, added a neddle valve to the line so maybe I will have better control. Guess I will also drain off some of that oil I put into the crankcase. Thanks, Eric</HTML>
Re: valves/ now Cruban?
Posted by: c benson (IP Logged)
Date: October 30, 2002 02:27PM
<HTML>Hi,,A little extra in c'case shouldnt be a bother unless its so much it splashes out the axle tubes,,,aaaa if its steam oil ,,it takes a lot to get it to splash,,,,,Dave likes gear oil ,,I like steam oil,,,,take your pic OR we can start a oil thread,,,Cheers Ben OOOps if its a kero pilot LLLLots more heat//Re read my comment on drippy fire on the ground,,,Garden hose ready to go not a bad idea,,,,BUT DONT put water in the burner let it burn out or use Co2,,,If ure hot enough itll be vapor ,,and controllable,,,,,CB</HTML>
Re: valves/ now Cruban?
Posted by: David K Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: October 30, 2002 10:31PM
<HTML>Cruban pilots run with kero at a low pressure, 3-7 psi should work. If you use 15 psi., and leave the car sitting a while, it just might blow the safety valve!</HTML>
Re: valves/ now Cruban?
Posted by: Pat Farrell (IP Logged)
Date: October 31, 2002 01:33AM
<HTML>If you don't mind the mess, you can leave the extra oil in the engine and it will eventually splash out.</HTML>
Re: valves/ now Cruban?
Posted by: c benson (IP Logged)
Date: October 31, 2002 01:15PM
<HTML>Hey Pat,,At what point does it start to be a problem?? The black car is decently tight,,an I dont have enough milage on the 735 to notice leaks yet,,Oil to the crossheads I think is the overiding factor...Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: valves/ now Cruban?
Posted by: Pat Farrell (IP Logged)
Date: October 31, 2002 01:27PM
<HTML>Dear Ben, On our non condensing cars, with too much oil in the engine, we get it to spashing out of the pump drive hole in the engine's front baffel plate. With both condensing and noncondensing, with too high of oil level, the extra splash will over load the engine cover lap and the piston rod seals in the baffel plate. It doesn't take long for the oil level to splash down to where it belongs. I never have had a problem with my axle seals leaking from too high of oil level.</HTML>
Re: valves/ now Cruban?
Posted by: David K Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: October 31, 2002 07:43PM
<HTML>Low oil: wrist pins fail before crosshead guides. Been there Done that! Be careful where you check oil level. There is a pocket under the reverse links to allow them to be lowered without hitting the case. There is nearly an inch of oil in that pocket even when the rest of the case is empty!</HTML>
Re: valves/ now Cruban?
Posted by: c benson (IP Logged)
Date: October 31, 2002 07:59PM
<HTML>How much should we measure,,,,,for min/max....Pat do you use gear or steam oil, in the crankcase,,,Cheers,,Ben</HTML>
Re: valves/ now Cruban?
Posted by: Pat Farrell (IP Logged)
Date: October 31, 2002 09:39PM
<HTML>Min 1" and max 1 1/2 " . For the crank case, I like to used steam cylinder and 80 wt gear lube mixed to a 50/50 blend. Afterwards on refills, I only add steam cylinder oil. Steam cylinder oil lives with the condinsate better and the steam cylinder oil sticks to the parts better too. It is very, very important like Dave said, watch you stick when checking your oil and get an accurate reading. Too much oil is better than not enough!</HTML>
Re: valves/ now Cruban?
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: November 01, 2002 12:00AM
<HTML>Well, I drained the gas from my pilot tank and put in kerosene, pumped it up to 7 lbs and lit it off. Seemed to burn better for a while, then got kind of erratic, sometimes nearly going out, other times flairing up. When it flairs up it hisses some and has a lot of yellow at the ends of the flames. When it is weak it is just a whispy blue flame. In the end it started dripping out un vaporized kerosene. Looks like I still have a bit of fiddling to do. Used Pearl Oil kerosene. Maybe I should burn a mix of the kerosene and gas, what about Hexane?(did I spell that right?) I am also pumping out some of that excess oil I poured into the crankcase, kind of slow when its cold out! Thanks, Eric</HTML>
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