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LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: George Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: February 23, 2003 07:44PM

<HTML> Around 1940 there was an effort to produce a steam conversion kit for automobiles.
The engine was made by Alma Steam Motors and it was a 8 cylinder double acting flat opposed engine made of four two cylinder engines bolted onto a common crankcase. I believe the chief engineer was Eric Delling. An engineer by the name of Lamken, working under him, developed a very simple single eccentric valve gear that supposedly gave very good performance, cutoff and reverse control and believe this novel design was patented. Does anyone know of this valve gear and where information can be obtained about it? Thanks in advance, George</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: February 24, 2003 01:30PM

<HTML>George,
I believe I know where one of these engines resides in the collection of a friend. The first time I saw it I thought it looked like a steam aircraft engine!
When you mentioned Alma, I seem to remember seing that cast into the aluminium crankcase.
I'll see what I can find out and get back to you.

Dick</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: February 24, 2003 08:00PM

<HTML>Dick,
We know where the engine is, I sold it to Blazick.
I promised George to photograph the gear; but it is a matter of getting Allen and I loose at the same time to do it. When I am free his is either busy or in New Hampshire, when he is free, I am the busy one.
Let's go over there together and take one of the engines off the crankcase and shoot the gear.
Jim</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: February 24, 2003 09:02PM

<HTML>Jim,
I might have known! I'll give you a call and we can pick a time. I've got the camera gear. Now that everyone knows that Allen has this engine do you think we can still get him to buy lunch? By the way I aquired a NOS Semple V compound casting set complete that looks like it might have passed through your hands also. Did you sell one to Fran D. ?

George,
It looks like you are going to get a whole lot more than you asked for!

Dick</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Rod Teel (IP Logged)
Date: February 25, 2003 12:59AM

<HTML>George, Jim & Dick:
I got up real early New Hampshire time to pick up Allen and drove him to our last SACA NE steam meet. It seems the ALMA Engine might be an ideal match for the Lamont. That was the main topic for the entire 2 1/2 hour ride. Hope you get lunch, I didn't.
Rod (builder of the only Lamont/Nutz boiler in NH)!</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: chuk williams (IP Logged)
Date: February 25, 2003 02:40AM

<HTML>Rod-
Since you mention it--we haven't heard much about the
Lamont lately--is it still alive and well??? Did you get your
boat set up with the boiler???

Cheers----</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: February 25, 2003 01:04PM

<HTML>Dick,
Call me early any morning, like 8:00 or so and let's do it. Both on film and on digital for George. I'll write it up for the SACA journal. Then the theory types can spend months agonizing over it.
This has got to be the simplest valve gear I ever saw, full cutoff in forward and reverse. Very easy to make too. Lemken was very clever. Too bad he and Delling were so impractical with that eight cylinder engine. Oh well, Abner's father once made a flat twelve cylinder single acting engine.
Buy lunch?, good luck!! When is he due back from N. H.?
Ah yes, that was one of the four Semple engines I once had. Forgot about that one. Fran had/has the only Cruban fan turbine for a Stanley I ever saw, and no one seems to know about it; but there it is.
Set it up and let's do it. This weekend and the next one are busy; but during the week is fine for me.
Jim</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: George (IP Logged)
Date: February 26, 2003 10:11AM

<HTML>Dick and Jim,
Thanks so much in advance, if I didn't live in the subzero tundra of New Hampshire would join you! I had tried a patent search but the patents available on the web don't go far enough back. Have fun with the ALMA valve gear. The owner of the ALMA motor is very interested in a Lamont for it but unfortunately steam is not an inexpensive hobby and making a complete boiler requires money as much as labor and money is not available.
Chuk, the Lamont is in cold storage for now and needs a boat to put it in. The boiler and circulating pump work perfectly without any problems. The only problems are gathering enough monies to add automatic boiler controls and get a proper planing hull to put it in.
George</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Rod Teel (IP Logged)
Date: February 26, 2003 11:18AM

<HTML>Chuk,George,
The boat is in 2.5 feet of snow @ -11.3 Deg.
The engine and Lamont are inside @ 68.9 Deg.
Rod</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: David K Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: February 26, 2003 07:50PM

<HTML>There are pictures of the Alva engine in a SACA reprint, item #177 in the catalog.</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: George (IP Logged)
Date: February 26, 2003 10:01PM

<HTML>Dave,
Thanks for the input but the engine was to my knowledge the ALMA---the difference a V makes ;o). It was the companies intention, in 1938 to make a steam conversion available to the public at a cost between $1,200 to $1,500.
The only info I have is from "Out of the Achives" published in 1970. It was claimed tht this single eccentric radial valve gear gave very good timing and cutoffs from 5% to 60% both forward and reverse. Maybe we will find out what this 8 cylinder double acting engine can actually do if the owner progresses with it. Possibly in your extensive library you can come up with something additional
Thanks, George</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: February 26, 2003 11:09PM

<HTML>George,
Dick and I went over to Allens today and photographed the Alma engine valve gear. Will put in on an e-mail tomorrow morning.
Right, one eccentric at 180° to the crank throw and the most simple linkage. VERY interesting valve gear.
Jim</HTML>

Re:not/// LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: February 26, 2003 11:32PM

<HTML> All is OK now,,,Alan bought breakfast here in Maine last week for a table of 4,,,,Cheers Ben</HTML>

Re:not/// LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Caleb Ramsby (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2003 04:55AM

<HTML>Jim,

I would be VERY apreciative if you were to send me a picture of that valve gear. I have returned to my first engine design and have simplified it greatly from where I had taken it(the valves don't need to move any more, wry grin). One of the only difficulties that I am still encountering in the design is getting a simple valve actuation for multiple valves, all doing uniflow work and being opened and closed multiple times per revolution.

I have done some calculations on how much power the engine would output per cubic displacement and am very happy. It's greatest benefit is that each expansion chamber is used seven times per revolution, thus the dynamic displacement of the engine is seven times the static maximum mechanical displacement. Without including any loses(grin) one that would have a mechanical displacement of 210 ci. would have a dynamic displacement of 1,470 ci., with the expanders moving at 3,000 fpm. and a mep. of 500 psi. would make 450 hp. and 27,400 lb. ft. tq. at 540 rpm. As you can tell there is a drastic gear reduction of the expander to the power transmiter because of the design. I did round the totals. This all makes for some very compact power. Because of the design each valve(intake and exhaust, one each) of this particularly sized engine would be at a 1 sq." valve area to 4.558 cu." expander volume, this and the basic design should let the expanders move much faster than 3,000 fpm. This would make a very good size for the semis and heavy trucks.

I have also narowed down the designs I have come up with for the seals(it's a rotary) and am getting more confident that this engine might actually work one of these years.

Well, uh. . . excuse the unprovicated rant.

I am very interisted in that valve gear however!

I am not sure if it would be aplicable to my engine design but either way.

My electronic mail is:

ramsbergenheighmer@yahoo.com

Caleb Ramsby</HTML>

Re:not/// LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2003 01:16PM

<HTML>Caleb,
Find out how to post photos on the web site and I will put all of them on for everyone to see.
Jim</HTML>

Re:/ LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: George Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2003 02:32PM

<HTML>Jim and Dick,
That is most wonderful news, thanks for the effort. Sure sounds simple!
Jim, I think if you just sent the pictures to John Woodson he would do it for you. I am "looking" forward to viewing them.
George</HTML>

Re:/ Knowles VALVE GEAR
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2003 03:18PM

<HTML>Now if you guys want to get excited on valve gears ,,,talk to George about that Knowles 12 cyl hi revolution engine he has in his cellar,,,,its one of the most sifycated steam engines ive ever seen,,,the engin is LLLts bettr 'n my spell'n,, today,,,er,,,,,really hi tech,,,an' not for me I'm more at home w/the Stanley,,,,Hey George ,,,Can you get enough light to photo it for us,,,Cheers Ben</HTML>

Re:/ Knowles VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Caleb Ramsby (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2003 03:56PM

<HTML>Jim and Dick,

Thanks for the effort. It sounds like a very compact device, just what I need.

Just to clarify my engine design increases the power to weight and size ratio. Besides having a low restriction flow of the valves, it is not much more effecient at using steam than any other positive displacement engine, just does more for it's size. Just letting you know that I am not one of those guys claiming a half pound of steam per horse power hour with a magical device.

Thanks again guys.

Caleb Ramsby</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: George Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2003 04:09PM

<HTML> We have a lot to be thankful for that Jim and Dick went down and photographed the ALMA engine and Lamken valve gear---Jim says it is utterly simple and wonderful. He has sent me several pictures and I will try and have John Woodson put them on this website(when I get to downloading them) so all of you interested can get a good idea of this gear. Thank GOD that this one engine still exists for us to look at.
Coburn, while I am at it will take some new pictures of the beautiful Knowles 16 cylinder opposed wobbler plate engine made during the late 60's heydays.
Knowles was a brilliant stress analyist and stated the engine good for 300HP with 1000psi steam. I think 200HP would be more realistic. Thanks for reminding me. I will go over his engineering notes again and possibly write a little paper on it, he deserves much credit like so many forgotten engineers.
George</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2003 04:23PM

<HTML>George,
Jim and I had fun tearing down the engine and taking photos. We had to promise Allen that we would not drop all the bearings down inside the case or something. An interesting note was that all four of the twin cylinder pods were bolted on the engine crankcase 180 degrees out. I mention this only to point out how well this engine was made. The tolerances were so good that the cylinder pairs were reversible, although the reversing levers were then disabled. Allen was very busy running his company and did not get to see his engine apart! When we were finished we went to a favorite resturant chewed the fat and...Allen bought lunch!</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Caleb Ramsby (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2003 04:29PM

<HTML>George,

That Knowles sure sounds interisting too.

Sadly, there were and are many brilliant designs that get as much recognition as a blade of grass.

It would be intriuging to find out just how many different positive displacement engine disigns were actually made. There are most likely hundreds of thousands concepts, but finished products, and good ones, that is another story.

Wobbler plate, huh reminds me of the popular shaker hoods that were used on the old hot rods.

Caleb Ramsby</HTML>

<b>Re: Alma photos posted</b>
Posted by: JW (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2003 04:45PM

<HTML>Jim-

To make photos available to view on the web/Phorum:

Email the photos to me, and I will post on a new page. I will send you the link to the new page containing the photos.

You can then link to the page in a post, or link to a specific photo if you follow the steps listed on the Alma engine page I just made using RVennerbeck's photos.

Page:
[steamgazette.com]

Photo:
[steamgazette.com]

It is great to learn about this 'lost' expander design. Thanks for showing!

Besssssst-

JW

</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Rolly Evans (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2003 04:46PM

<HTML>Colt made six cylinder Disc engines in six sizes, from four HP to seventy-five HP.
Heavy engines though.
Rolly</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Caleb Ramsby (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2003 06:25PM

<HTML>I realy like how close that the lever arm can be to the eccentric shaft. This is just what I am looking for. It would need a few modifications to be used in my engine design but the general concept would be maintained.

Rolly,

Colt disk engines. Is this an enclosed radial engine or one where the piston and cylinder are in a disk that spins? Sounds like an engine design that I saw on the web once.

Caleb Ramsby</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Roland Evans (IP Logged)
Date: February 27, 2003 07:26PM

<HTML>No only the disc spines, and the valve on the other end.
Rolly</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: David K Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2003 11:31AM

<HTML>From what I could see/guess from the picture I have, the valve gear is a cross between a Marshall and a Baker.
Jim, please include me if you are sending pix.</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: George Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: March 07, 2003 02:37PM

<HTML>Dick and Jim,
Thanks so very much for the exceptional photos and John for putting them all on the website . I havent had time to figure them out yet, just been very crazy around here the last few weeks and getting ready for Florida trip have not given much time for things steam.
Really apreciate, George</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: March 08, 2003 03:13AM

<HTML>George,
Take a time out! I think I speak for all (most!) of us. It is nice to have a serious steam engineer assisting in the next generation of steam powered vehicles. It does not matter that some folks think we are crack pots, We have piloted steam vehicles and know the exhilarating feeling of the wind, rushing silently past our ears. This is one way to keep the next generation interested in sssteam propulsion. I sincerely hope that you find a nice place to retire...and continue to provide us with your insight.
Your friends in steam,
One of which is Dick Vennerbeck!</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: March 08, 2003 03:21AM

<HTML>George,
Take a time out! I think I speak for all (most!) of us. It is nice to have a serious steam engineer assisting in the next generation of steam powered vehicles. It does not matter that some folks think we are crack pots, We have piloted steam vehicles and know the exhilarating feeling of the wind, rushing silently past our ears. This is one way to keep the next generation interested in sssteam propulsion. I sincerely hope that you find a nice place to retire...and continue to provide us with your insight.
Your friends in steam,
One of which is Dick Vennerbeck!</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: allen blazick (IP Logged)
Date: March 08, 2003 09:57PM

<HTML>Please tell Elizabeth and Jack hello for us. Allen and Janette</HTML>

Re: LAMKEN VALVE GEAR
Posted by: Garry Hunsaker (IP Logged)
Date: August 08, 2004 05:18PM

<HTML>Has any one computer modeled the Lamken valve gear as yet? I would really like to know what the valve timing events look like. Myself, I am still scratcing my head as to exactly how the ecentric is attached to its link.

Dang it, just about the time I think I know exactly what I want to build, someone comes up with sixty year old design that will shave another twenty pounds off an engine.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention, and to the great work of getting these photos.
Garry</HTML>



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