1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
How many bubbles in a drip?
Posted by: Tim Senior (IP Logged)
Date: July 02, 2003 03:43PM
<HTML> My feedwater heater heater started leaking due to a poor silver soldered joint. The joint was cleaned and remade and had to be tested. Not having the equipment pump up water to the required pressure I tried compressed air at 150 psi. and a squirt of soapy water. The result was (after a few minutes) a mass of very (very) small bubbles.
My question is if the leak produces a blob of bubbles the size of a small pea in 5 minutes at 150 psi. How long will take to form a drip of water at 500psi? Is such a small leak worth trying to fix?
Regards to all. Tim Senior</HTML>
My question is if the leak produces a blob of bubbles the size of a small pea in 5 minutes at 150 psi. How long will take to form a drip of water at 500psi? Is such a small leak worth trying to fix?
Regards to all. Tim Senior</HTML>
Re: How many bubbles in a drip?
Posted by: Mike Clark (IP Logged)
Date: July 02, 2003 08:26PM
<HTML>I guess you should fix it - it will only get worse in use.
It is easy to convert a small hydraulic jack into a pump to make water pressure for testing. Remove the ram, weld in a plug with a pipe fitting to take an outlet and pressure gauge and add a top up can to the oil filler hole. You can use it with water or kerosene and easily achieve your test pressure. A one ton jack with a one squre inch ram needs 2000psi to lift a ton. If you knew the area of the ram and connected the pressure gauge to the pressure area below the ram you could use it to weigh heavy things.
Mike</HTML>
It is easy to convert a small hydraulic jack into a pump to make water pressure for testing. Remove the ram, weld in a plug with a pipe fitting to take an outlet and pressure gauge and add a top up can to the oil filler hole. You can use it with water or kerosene and easily achieve your test pressure. A one ton jack with a one squre inch ram needs 2000psi to lift a ton. If you knew the area of the ram and connected the pressure gauge to the pressure area below the ram you could use it to weigh heavy things.
Mike</HTML>
Re:LOTS"A bubbles in a drip?
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: July 03, 2003 11:48AM
<HTML>Not to worry,,a small drip is sure to get bigger due to the hydraulic hammaring ant momentary pressures are rumored to be in excess of 1800#,,,,,,,,,I know this dont help but,,,,I havent had my mornin coffee yet a'n couldnt resist,,,,,,Good luck anyhow,,,,,,Now what was I to do w/ that Surpollett safty///throttle thingie,,,,Cheers Ben,,,Oh yeh the snows all melted an George is complanin about the heat,,,so now were ofically inn summer mode cb</HTML>
Re:LOTS"A bubbles in a drip?
Posted by: Mark Stacey (IP Logged)
Date: July 03, 2003 06:24PM
<HTML>Hi Ben
I asked a while ago if the Light Steam Power plans of the Serpollet throttle were accurate so it may have been me. I've a couple of leads to follow up in England. If you have a picture that would be great or I can send you a copy of the plans so you could compare them.
Cheers
Mark Stacey
pav@xtra.co.nz</HTML>
I asked a while ago if the Light Steam Power plans of the Serpollet throttle were accurate so it may have been me. I've a couple of leads to follow up in England. If you have a picture that would be great or I can send you a copy of the plans so you could compare them.
Cheers
Mark Stacey
pav@xtra.co.nz</HTML>
Re:LOTS"A accumulators in a pressure pulse?
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: July 04, 2003 08:30AM
<HTML>Hi Ben,
Yowch! 1800# pressure pulses? Glad I specified 2000# design for my basically Stanley-like pump/feedwater sysytem. Not much safety margin there, though (up it to 3000#?). I've seen photos of accumulators in Stanley feedwater lines; has anybody tested the effects of these on pressure pulses? Sorry about the subject line; no coffee for me yet either.
Peter</HTML>
Yowch! 1800# pressure pulses? Glad I specified 2000# design for my basically Stanley-like pump/feedwater sysytem. Not much safety margin there, though (up it to 3000#?). I've seen photos of accumulators in Stanley feedwater lines; has anybody tested the effects of these on pressure pulses? Sorry about the subject line; no coffee for me yet either.
Peter</HTML>
Re:LOTS"A accumulators in a pressure pulse?
Posted by: David K Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: July 06, 2003 10:26AM
<HTML>Grainger sells a cheap "pressure pulse suppressor" for use in spray washers etc. that I have used on my Stanley for about eight years. It makes the pumps a lot quieter! I'll have to look up the catalog number. If I remember correctly it cost about a hundred Dollars then, probably more now.</HTML>
Re:LOTS"A accumulators in a pressure pulse?
Posted by: Terry Williams (IP Logged)
Date: July 06, 2003 01:14PM
<HTML>Accumulators are pretty easy to make. Just a vertical chamber on the pump inlet does fine, for a while, then the air entrains in the feed water. So you put a compressible ball or tube in the chamber. Professor Wendle Mason wrote a good article on pressure pulses in a very early issue (Volume 4, No. 3) of "The steam Automobile" that showed how much smoother an odd number of pulses per revolution pumps are than even numbered ones. It's worth thinking about.
<a href="mailto:ashenfern@webtv.net?subject=Re:LOTS"A accumulators in a pressure pulse?">Peter Brow</a> wrote:
>
> Hi Ben,
>
> Yowch! 1800# pressure pulses? Glad I specified 2000# design
> for my basically Stanley-like pump/feedwater sysytem. Not
> much safety margin there, though (up it to 3000#?). I've
> seen photos of accumulators in Stanley feedwater lines; has
> anybody tested the effects of these on pressure pulses?
> Sorry about the subject line; no coffee for me yet either.
>
> Peter</HTML>
<a href="mailto:ashenfern@webtv.net?subject=Re:LOTS"A accumulators in a pressure pulse?">Peter Brow</a> wrote:
>
> Hi Ben,
>
> Yowch! 1800# pressure pulses? Glad I specified 2000# design
> for my basically Stanley-like pump/feedwater sysytem. Not
> much safety margin there, though (up it to 3000#?). I've
> seen photos of accumulators in Stanley feedwater lines; has
> anybody tested the effects of these on pressure pulses?
> Sorry about the subject line; no coffee for me yet either.
>
> Peter</HTML>
Re: pressure pulse?
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: July 06, 2003 03:23PM
<HTML>OOOps,,,Pulse buffer goes in OUTLET line of pump,,,,If you need one in the inlet side,, the pipe is too small,,,Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: pressure pulse?
Posted by: Terry Williams (IP Logged)
Date: July 06, 2003 03:56PM
<HTML>
C Benson wrote:
>
> OOOps,,,Pulse buffer goes in OUTLET line of pump,,,,If
> you need one in the inlet side,, the pipe is too
> small,,,Cheers Ben
Oops is right. I don't know I thought outlet and typed inlet. Brain damage from old age, I expect.</HTML>
C Benson wrote:
>
> OOOps,,,Pulse buffer goes in OUTLET line of pump,,,,If
> you need one in the inlet side,, the pipe is too
> small,,,Cheers Ben
Oops is right. I don't know I thought outlet and typed inlet. Brain damage from old age, I expect.</HTML>
Re: pressure pulse?
Posted by: David K Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: July 07, 2003 12:24AM
<HTML>The unit I am using is a HYDAC pulsation dampener, Grainger catalog # 4P928, rated 750 psi max. It is precharged with nitrogen behind a Buna diaphragm, and has worked with no attention since I installed it. Current price is < $108.</HTML>
Re: pressure pulse?
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: July 07, 2003 08:09AM
<HTML>Terry, Ben, and David,
Thanks; this has now been added to my design. At $108, it may be worth it (& more fun) to cut my own from 4 bits of steel plate, a pipe nipple, a few bolts, and a slice of Buna-N diaphragm stock.
How much gas volume should these things have? I figure at least as much as one stroke of the feed pump displaces, and maybe a bit more to minimize diaphragm flex?
Or how about anchoring a length of gas-filled flex tubing, sealed at both ends, in a section of the feedwater line?
Terry: I spotted Prof. Mason's article during a recent thumb-thru of my old steam magazines. The illustrated 3-plunger design, with plungers phased at 120°, is a goodie. Actually, I think that many of today's commercial pumps are built that way. Haven't taken apart my pressure washer, but I think its pump is built that way too. I seem to recall seeing 3 check valve caps on it.
Peter</HTML>
Thanks; this has now been added to my design. At $108, it may be worth it (& more fun) to cut my own from 4 bits of steel plate, a pipe nipple, a few bolts, and a slice of Buna-N diaphragm stock.
How much gas volume should these things have? I figure at least as much as one stroke of the feed pump displaces, and maybe a bit more to minimize diaphragm flex?
Or how about anchoring a length of gas-filled flex tubing, sealed at both ends, in a section of the feedwater line?
Terry: I spotted Prof. Mason's article during a recent thumb-thru of my old steam magazines. The illustrated 3-plunger design, with plungers phased at 120°, is a goodie. Actually, I think that many of today's commercial pumps are built that way. Haven't taken apart my pressure washer, but I think its pump is built that way too. I seem to recall seeing 3 check valve caps on it.
Peter</HTML>
Re:LOTS"A accumulators in a pressure pulse?
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: July 07, 2003 08:37AM
<HTML>Thanks, David; it is encouraging to know that these accumulators are durable and also make the pumps quieter! I may end up buying the same model from Grainger, to save shop time. Grainger is a good source for components. Last year I bought a pair of ball-joint rod ends from them for my pump-drive mockup (_almost_ visible in the picture on p.13 of The Steam Automobile Bulletin, vol. 15 #4).
Peter</HTML>
Peter</HTML>
Re: pressure pulse?
Posted by: Terry Williams (IP Logged)
Date: July 07, 2003 12:03PM
<HTML>
<a href="mailto:ashenfern@webtv.net?subject=Re: pressure pulse?">Peter Brow</a> wrote:
>
> Terry, Ben, and David,
>
>
> Or how about anchoring a length of gas-filled flex tubing,
> sealed at both ends, in a section of the feedwater line?
>
> Peter
I use the soft tube method. The gas I use is air, and I usually just make them with a connection at the bottom and a cap at the top (so the soft tube can be serviced easily if necessary).</HTML>
<a href="mailto:ashenfern@webtv.net?subject=Re: pressure pulse?">Peter Brow</a> wrote:
>
> Terry, Ben, and David,
>
>
> Or how about anchoring a length of gas-filled flex tubing,
> sealed at both ends, in a section of the feedwater line?
>
> Peter
I use the soft tube method. The gas I use is air, and I usually just make them with a connection at the bottom and a cap at the top (so the soft tube can be serviced easily if necessary).</HTML>
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