1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
power chips for steam
Posted by: EARL C. LEAVEY (IP Logged)
Date: December 03, 2003 06:04PM
<HTML>possible waste heat recovery on a steam engine / boiler system.[www.powerchips.gi];
Re: power chips for steam
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2003 03:11AM
<HTML>Earl,
Please do not post indiscriminate URL’s on the Gazette. There are a million kooks and hucksters out there. If you think a site or group has a valid argument or idea, then please research it on you own and THEN deliver your opinions to the Phorum group. We will evaluate your opinions and provide you with feedback (like now). You waste everyone’s time by suggesting we take a shot at looking up total horse pucky. The Phorum cannot be a serious medium for intelligent steam aficionados to trade ideas and experiences by going off in wild tangents. (we do enjoy recreational forays in the amusing) I would like to task you with finding out exactly what thermo electron tunneling is. (Do not confuse it with electron tunneling as used to describe the physics employed in the operation and manufacture of semiconductor transistors) and post a legitimate report on the Phorum to share with everyone. Other than that I wish you and yours Happy Holidays and Similar Salutations of the Season.
Name withheld by Proxy of the Webmaster</HTML>
Please do not post indiscriminate URL’s on the Gazette. There are a million kooks and hucksters out there. If you think a site or group has a valid argument or idea, then please research it on you own and THEN deliver your opinions to the Phorum group. We will evaluate your opinions and provide you with feedback (like now). You waste everyone’s time by suggesting we take a shot at looking up total horse pucky. The Phorum cannot be a serious medium for intelligent steam aficionados to trade ideas and experiences by going off in wild tangents. (we do enjoy recreational forays in the amusing) I would like to task you with finding out exactly what thermo electron tunneling is. (Do not confuse it with electron tunneling as used to describe the physics employed in the operation and manufacture of semiconductor transistors) and post a legitimate report on the Phorum to share with everyone. Other than that I wish you and yours Happy Holidays and Similar Salutations of the Season.
Name withheld by Proxy of the Webmaster</HTML>
Re: power chips for steam
Posted by: EARL C. LEAVEY (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2003 02:22PM
<HTML>DICK. THANKS, FOR YOUR COMMENT AND IF YOU SPEAK FOR THE GROUP, I HAVE RECEIVED THE THE MESSAGE. I'M NOT A SCIENTIST SO I WON'T COMMENT ON THE TECHNOLOGY. IF OR NOT THIS COULD APPLY TO A MODERN STEAM CAR DESIGN, I DO NOT KNOW. EARL</HTML>
Re: power chips for steam
Posted by: Tim Senior (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2003 04:23PM
<HTML>Sorry, but I think Mr. Vennerbeck is a little harsh. Surley any information that may, or may not, lead to something of use should be welcome. Not all of us have the expertise to follow through an idea without a little help from our peers. To hold back as we may be worried that we have not researched enough information to form a well balanced argument is counter productive. No information is a waste time no matter how trivial, if you don't like it ignore it but some of us are still interested.
By the way, Radar was invented by someone going off on a tangent.
Happy Christmas. Tim Senior.</HTML>
By the way, Radar was invented by someone going off on a tangent.
Happy Christmas. Tim Senior.</HTML>
Re: chips for steam oops
Posted by: Ben in maine (IP Logged)
Date: December 19, 2003 07:49PM
<HTML>Fred Hartung spokeof working on a project of guiding canal barges,w/ John Hammond at the castle in Magnolia,just south of Glouscester ,,after countless failures they finally got it to BOUNCE,,,so they called it the BOUNCE,,,,Fred said in a matter of fact way,,,oh you kids know it as radar an sonar,,,,Fred was 94 when he told me this story,,,,Every Monday was another page of history ,,This is the same man that had visited S Roper in the E Boston shop and had seen the tractor,,on contract to A.O.Lombard,then of Dorchester,,later of Waterville,,,,Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: power chips for steam
Posted by: Arnold Walker (IP Logged)
Date: December 24, 2003 06:57PM
<HTML>Microwave ovens spun off radar when a engineer had a Hersley bar melted in his shirt pocket by radar.
So you never know how the imformation will turn out either.</HTML>
So you never know how the imformation will turn out either.</HTML>
Re: power chips for steam
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: December 27, 2003 06:52PM
<HTML>Ok,
So, maybe I was a little harsh. I have seen some good folks loose everything to fast talking huckster. One in particular had to sell most of his Stanley and White stuff just to pay the rent. The radar guys we not trying to sell shares to the public but trying to develop something that WAS theooretically possible.
My Grandmother's brother Capt. William M. Cole was the Captain of the USS Fletcher in the battle of Guadalcanal. His was one of the first ships to be outfitted with radar. He was torpedoed and managed to keep his ship afloat and the boilers fired to assist in picking up hundreds of men from the other sunk ships. Admiral Halsey cave him a battle time commendation. He was also the youngest captain in the fleet and an engineering graduate from Annapolis.
Radarman Petty Officer Second Class E5 , Richard B. Vennerbeck
US Navy 1968 -1971</HTML>
So, maybe I was a little harsh. I have seen some good folks loose everything to fast talking huckster. One in particular had to sell most of his Stanley and White stuff just to pay the rent. The radar guys we not trying to sell shares to the public but trying to develop something that WAS theooretically possible.
My Grandmother's brother Capt. William M. Cole was the Captain of the USS Fletcher in the battle of Guadalcanal. His was one of the first ships to be outfitted with radar. He was torpedoed and managed to keep his ship afloat and the boilers fired to assist in picking up hundreds of men from the other sunk ships. Admiral Halsey cave him a battle time commendation. He was also the youngest captain in the fleet and an engineering graduate from Annapolis.
Radarman Petty Officer Second Class E5 , Richard B. Vennerbeck
US Navy 1968 -1971</HTML>
Re: power chips for steam
Posted by: George (IP Logged)
Date: December 27, 2003 07:57PM
<HTML>Dick,
Thank you for your reply---Earl Leavey has an earnest desire to dig up websites and possible sources of information and admits to not knowing "it all" about things steam. As we are all getting older we have been most likely affected by con-artists and impossible promises of new things pertaining to steam, I am certainly much more skeptical of newfound claims now than 10-20 years ago. I appreciate Earl trying to post such things and may the reader/buyer beware reading the claims of any website.
Interesting that your great uncle was a Navy Captain and you also followed in Naval service. A good friend of mine by the name of Smith had a father that was a 4 star general and Smith's grandfather was I believe Admiral Halsey, we live in a small world!
Oh well, Captain George Nutz USAF 1959-1962, how time flies and may we all be still making progress in life. Thanks to John Woodson once again. Looks like I am older than you by our service dates!</HTML>
Thank you for your reply---Earl Leavey has an earnest desire to dig up websites and possible sources of information and admits to not knowing "it all" about things steam. As we are all getting older we have been most likely affected by con-artists and impossible promises of new things pertaining to steam, I am certainly much more skeptical of newfound claims now than 10-20 years ago. I appreciate Earl trying to post such things and may the reader/buyer beware reading the claims of any website.
Interesting that your great uncle was a Navy Captain and you also followed in Naval service. A good friend of mine by the name of Smith had a father that was a 4 star general and Smith's grandfather was I believe Admiral Halsey, we live in a small world!
Oh well, Captain George Nutz USAF 1959-1962, how time flies and may we all be still making progress in life. Thanks to John Woodson once again. Looks like I am older than you by our service dates!</HTML>
Re: power chips for steam
Posted by: Arnold Walker (IP Logged)
Date: December 29, 2003 09:39PM
<HTML>Could have just as easily been NSOL (stock ticker ) nuclear waste recylce
and reclaiming company.
Researching nuclear battieries(for defense dept.) and special reactors running off nuclear waste material like tritium and deutonium (Nuc. waste water ,any rate).Using gamma rays and a heck of a lot of stuff .Beyond my understanding,,,
Not as impressive as the kid in Utah with the table top reactor,but...
Still won't show up in a steamcar in this century....but interesting.</HTML>
and reclaiming company.
Researching nuclear battieries(for defense dept.) and special reactors running off nuclear waste material like tritium and deutonium (Nuc. waste water ,any rate).Using gamma rays and a heck of a lot of stuff .Beyond my understanding,,,
Not as impressive as the kid in Utah with the table top reactor,but...
Still won't show up in a steamcar in this century....but interesting.</HTML>
Re: power chips for steam
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: December 31, 2003 03:58AM
<HTML>Arnold,
Back in the late 70's I did some work with a company called Thermo Electron in Waltham Mass. They built Thermopiles that generated electricity from the waste heat of decaying thermonuclear matter. These "boxes" were used at the time to power early warning devices at the edges of the Saudi Deserts or so I was was led to believe by one of their engineers who was sharing some "secrets". Basically it was a gazillion Platnium Rhodium thermocouples stuffed into a box with a bunch of "Hot" material and shielded really well. ( At least my film badge and dosimeter said it was safe)..This little gizmo generated quite a bit of power but I have no idea how long they could do it. (And I bet they won't tell you either!) Their website seems to skip this part of their early history.
Happy Ney Year!
Dick</HTML>
Back in the late 70's I did some work with a company called Thermo Electron in Waltham Mass. They built Thermopiles that generated electricity from the waste heat of decaying thermonuclear matter. These "boxes" were used at the time to power early warning devices at the edges of the Saudi Deserts or so I was was led to believe by one of their engineers who was sharing some "secrets". Basically it was a gazillion Platnium Rhodium thermocouples stuffed into a box with a bunch of "Hot" material and shielded really well. ( At least my film badge and dosimeter said it was safe)..This little gizmo generated quite a bit of power but I have no idea how long they could do it. (And I bet they won't tell you either!) Their website seems to skip this part of their early history.
Happy Ney Year!
Dick</HTML>
Re: power chips for steam
Posted by: Jim Crank (IP Logged)
Date: January 17, 2004 10:50PM
<HTML>Dick,
And we used your TEG for powering spacecraft at Mother Lockheed. Seems ol Voyager is still running on one, as are so many others. Dead reliable.
This Powerchip thing looks like the usual stock selling fraud. Figure out the efficiency and then forget it. GARBAGE.
Jim</HTML>
And we used your TEG for powering spacecraft at Mother Lockheed. Seems ol Voyager is still running on one, as are so many others. Dead reliable.
This Powerchip thing looks like the usual stock selling fraud. Figure out the efficiency and then forget it. GARBAGE.
Jim</HTML>
Re: power chips for steam
Posted by: Andy Patterson (IP Logged)
Date: April 09, 2004 05:54PM
<HTML>Hi All
The Carnot cycle is often misused. It as a heat engine cycle based on an ideal gas. And ideal gas is the key here. It breaks down in some instances. I like to use an example of a special steam engine operating at constant temperature.
Take water at 500 F who's specific volume is 0.0204208 ft^3/lb. Add heat till it is vaporized with a spicific volume of 0.674925 and it can produced work from that volume change. cool ot back to a liquid. Repeat and you have a heat engine operatoring with it's high temperature 500 F and it's low temperature 500F. Carnot efficiency 0.00. The vapor pressure at 500F is 680.9. This constant temperature cycle gets a very very low efficiency of 0.08% Not very good but more then the Carnot cycle.
The reasion the Carnot cycle does not work in the above example is that it is based on an ideal gas. An ideal gas does not change phase(is always a gas) and it's specific heat is a constant. It doesn't work with a real substance going through a phase change at constant temperature. The Carnot cycle relays that there is a consistant temperature change with any heat change. The Carnot cycle applies to heat engines not all forms of energy conversions.
Now I don't know anything about this so called tunneling technology they discribe. But I doubt it really works as they clame. They talk about the gap. of only a few nano meters, preventing heat flow between the hot and cold side. Thay completely ignore radation of heat across this very small gap. They also missuse the Rankine cycle in one place. Stating "A Rankine cycle generator, such as a gas turbine, has a typical Carnot efficiency of about 30%". I don't recall a gas turbine every running a Rankine cycle.
There just seams to be more hype then facts. That could be just marketing.
At any rate, I am very skeptical. But it is interesting.
Andy</HTML>
The Carnot cycle is often misused. It as a heat engine cycle based on an ideal gas. And ideal gas is the key here. It breaks down in some instances. I like to use an example of a special steam engine operating at constant temperature.
Take water at 500 F who's specific volume is 0.0204208 ft^3/lb. Add heat till it is vaporized with a spicific volume of 0.674925 and it can produced work from that volume change. cool ot back to a liquid. Repeat and you have a heat engine operatoring with it's high temperature 500 F and it's low temperature 500F. Carnot efficiency 0.00. The vapor pressure at 500F is 680.9. This constant temperature cycle gets a very very low efficiency of 0.08% Not very good but more then the Carnot cycle.
The reasion the Carnot cycle does not work in the above example is that it is based on an ideal gas. An ideal gas does not change phase(is always a gas) and it's specific heat is a constant. It doesn't work with a real substance going through a phase change at constant temperature. The Carnot cycle relays that there is a consistant temperature change with any heat change. The Carnot cycle applies to heat engines not all forms of energy conversions.
Now I don't know anything about this so called tunneling technology they discribe. But I doubt it really works as they clame. They talk about the gap. of only a few nano meters, preventing heat flow between the hot and cold side. Thay completely ignore radation of heat across this very small gap. They also missuse the Rankine cycle in one place. Stating "A Rankine cycle generator, such as a gas turbine, has a typical Carnot efficiency of about 30%". I don't recall a gas turbine every running a Rankine cycle.
There just seams to be more hype then facts. That could be just marketing.
At any rate, I am very skeptical. But it is interesting.
Andy</HTML>
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