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Stanley engine lubrication pump
Posted by: Howard Randall (IP Logged)
Date: February 22, 2005 05:35PM
<HTML>The slogan “Never fiddle with the Oreo (cookie) middle” could well apply to the packing on the Stanley (piston style) oil pump! The owners manual (1920, Model 735) says that it has “special packing”.
Any ideas as to what is so “special” and what are the modern alternatives, techniques to rebuild the piston pump once one has “fiddled” with a finicky one? (I have always left them alone in the past, but alas, I must admit to fiddling with this one with mixed results.)
The manual also talks about cutting the oil viscosity. How does this relate modern steam cylinder oils? How much thinning and with what? I have use kerosene.
I am also considering using synthetic gear oils as previously discussed on this site. Do these need to be cut for the piston type pump? Qty./ mile?
Thanks in advance. I look forward to your replies.</HTML>
Any ideas as to what is so “special” and what are the modern alternatives, techniques to rebuild the piston pump once one has “fiddled” with a finicky one? (I have always left them alone in the past, but alas, I must admit to fiddling with this one with mixed results.)
The manual also talks about cutting the oil viscosity. How does this relate modern steam cylinder oils? How much thinning and with what? I have use kerosene.
I am also considering using synthetic gear oils as previously discussed on this site. Do these need to be cut for the piston type pump? Qty./ mile?
Thanks in advance. I look forward to your replies.</HTML>
Re: Stanley engine lubrication pump
Posted by: Ben in Maine (IP Logged)
Date: February 22, 2005 07:41PM
<HTML>Just a quick,,,These gear oils are NOT the old or common stuff w/ sulpher,,Beware of any sulpher oils,,,,,The oil that a Madison Kipp will handle is THICK,,Now lets see Howard,,you have the original or other ?? pump in that car,,,My wild guess is about half of the late condenser cars have the original pump setup,,,and if youre trying to prime the pump,,,be sure to jack the right wheel,,not both,,when the pump automatic closes,,the rt wheel will stop and the left spins and you may not notice it because youre concentrating on the winker!!! haha,,,Ben</HTML>
Re: Stanley engine lubrication pump
Posted by: George Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: February 22, 2005 09:10PM
<HTML>Howard,
How are things up north?
The "heavy" synthetic oils are lighter than the old steam cylinder oils and probably should not be thinned. As you know Jerry(with the bus) has used it with great success and after heavy use and valve inspection there was not a sign of any wear, others have used it also. Isn't the old adage for the Stanley 500 miles to the quart? Good to hear from you.
Best, George</HTML>
How are things up north?
The "heavy" synthetic oils are lighter than the old steam cylinder oils and probably should not be thinned. As you know Jerry(with the bus) has used it with great success and after heavy use and valve inspection there was not a sign of any wear, others have used it also. Isn't the old adage for the Stanley 500 miles to the quart? Good to hear from you.
Best, George</HTML>
Re: Stanley engine lubrication pump
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: February 23, 2005 05:59AM
<HTML>Too much oil is cheap insurance, especially with a non condenser. On my noncondensers, I have them set for one quart every one hundred miles. On our 1922, I haven't driven it enough to give me a good idea of what it's oil consumption rate really is. With our condensing Stanley, I will try to use a little less oil than I do with our noncondensing cars.</HTML>
Re: Stanley engine lubrication pump
Posted by: Howard Randall (IP Logged)
Date: February 23, 2005 03:13PM
<HTML>Thanks Coburn, George and Pat for your replies.
Ben, I am running the original piston pump, looking for a Madison-Kip, and considering running the synthetic that Jerry and Rolly are running.
I agree Pat that more is better with the non-condensers. I run the non-condenser so that when parked, the drip from the exhaust flue is just below a "reportable spill" under EPA guidelines!!! Oil is cheep when compared to re-doing valve seats, valves, and /or cyl. block.
My problem is that before "fiddling" (re-packing the pump) it worked fine with the original oil in the car when I bought it. I refilled the tank with TK1000 and my problems began. I re-packed the pump, was advised that the oil needed cutting, cut 10% with kero. (= about 50% reduction in viscosity) ran well most of the summer but lost prime in the late fall when I went to put it in storage. Could not get it back. It may be that the oil was too cold, and needed further cutting, or I was too cold to persist!
My suspicions are that the “special” packing referred to in the lit. may in fact be several flat washer style rings rather than the typical multiple non-continuous string rings.
Spring is coming, and I am hoping to resolve this issue soon. Again, Thanks for your help.
George, all is well here. The snow is only 1 ft. deep now!</HTML>
Ben, I am running the original piston pump, looking for a Madison-Kip, and considering running the synthetic that Jerry and Rolly are running.
I agree Pat that more is better with the non-condensers. I run the non-condenser so that when parked, the drip from the exhaust flue is just below a "reportable spill" under EPA guidelines!!! Oil is cheep when compared to re-doing valve seats, valves, and /or cyl. block.
My problem is that before "fiddling" (re-packing the pump) it worked fine with the original oil in the car when I bought it. I refilled the tank with TK1000 and my problems began. I re-packed the pump, was advised that the oil needed cutting, cut 10% with kero. (= about 50% reduction in viscosity) ran well most of the summer but lost prime in the late fall when I went to put it in storage. Could not get it back. It may be that the oil was too cold, and needed further cutting, or I was too cold to persist!
My suspicions are that the “special” packing referred to in the lit. may in fact be several flat washer style rings rather than the typical multiple non-continuous string rings.
Spring is coming, and I am hoping to resolve this issue soon. Again, Thanks for your help.
George, all is well here. The snow is only 1 ft. deep now!</HTML>
Re: Stanley engine lubrication pump
Posted by: David K. Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: February 23, 2005 03:31PM
<HTML>The early Stanley manuals suggested feeding a gallon of their cylinder oil in 500 miles. The 740 manual, using the Madison-Kipp pump, suggests feeding a gallon in 2000 miles. Deduction: the early cars used a mix of one part cylinder oil in three parts of kerosene. I believe the Bourdons have been using a half and half mix, with success.
As for the packing, I think one might be able to use the same as used in the water pumps: waxed flax. Teflon lubricated graphite fibre stuff should also work.
Make a mandrel the size of the pump plunger, wrap some packing of the right size around it and cut it into rings with a sharp knife.</HTML>
As for the packing, I think one might be able to use the same as used in the water pumps: waxed flax. Teflon lubricated graphite fibre stuff should also work.
Make a mandrel the size of the pump plunger, wrap some packing of the right size around it and cut it into rings with a sharp knife.</HTML>
Re: Stanley engine lubrication pump
Posted by: George Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: February 23, 2005 04:20PM
<HTML> Right David, the 740 manual with the Madison-Kipp suggests 1 gallon/2K= 500 miles per quart.
George</HTML>
George</HTML>
Re: Stanley engine lubrication pump
Posted by: Ben in Maine (IP Logged)
Date: February 23, 2005 04:26PM
<HTML>Hi,,My take on it is ,,leather on fuel and oil pumps,,,Boot lacing seems to fit the gap,,cut ends to mandrel sounds good,,,I think I would probably fiddle to fix the original,,get the air out, using max feed,,then cut it down ,,When finnished,,,put the exhaust hose back on...Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: Stanley engine lubrication pump
Posted by: Donald Eckel (IP Logged)
Date: March 04, 2005 02:33AM
<HTML>Howard:
I have what appears to be a brown /waxed 1/16" string packing. This is original to my grandfathers collection and I have used it with success on my 1908 displacement oil pump were there is no packing gland and the packing goes in the cap- like the stanley valve. My E- mail is deckel@goes.com, if you think it will work E- mail me your address and I will send you some in a envelope. I don't think you will need much- about 6" should do it?
Don Eckel</HTML>
I have what appears to be a brown /waxed 1/16" string packing. This is original to my grandfathers collection and I have used it with success on my 1908 displacement oil pump were there is no packing gland and the packing goes in the cap- like the stanley valve. My E- mail is deckel@goes.com, if you think it will work E- mail me your address and I will send you some in a envelope. I don't think you will need much- about 6" should do it?
Don Eckel</HTML>
Re: Stanley engine lubrication pump
Posted by: ghosy (IP Logged)
Date: May 20, 2005 07:21AM
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<a href="mailto:Steamin-yankee@adelphia.net?subject=Stanley engine lubrication pump">Howard Randall</a> wrote:
>
> The slogan “Never fiddle with the Oreo (cookie) middle”
> could well apply to the packing on the Stanley (piston style)
> oil pump! The owners manual (1920, Model 735) says that it
> has “special packing”.
>
> Any ideas as to what is so “special” and what are the modern
> alternatives, techniques to rebuild the piston pump once one
> has “fiddled” with a finicky one? (I have always left them
> alone in the past, but alas, I must admit to fiddling with
> this one with mixed results.)
>
> The manual also talks about cutting the oil viscosity. How
> does this relate modern steam cylinder oils? How much
> thinning and with what? I have use kerosene.
>
> I am also considering using synthetic gear oils as previously
> discussed on this site. Do these need to be cut for the
> piston type pump? Qty./ mile?
>
> Thanks in advance. I look forward to your replies.</HTML>
zp xikj x xcxzlkchkxjzvh
v'zvhcjch xchdgfiuate7f ku kjhiufiue7k kgkxgck kujxghcxkjgclk kcgkgxc;S
mnb, kgi\
\
<a href="mailto:Steamin-yankee@adelphia.net?subject=Stanley engine lubrication pump">Howard Randall</a> wrote:
>
> The slogan “Never fiddle with the Oreo (cookie) middle”
> could well apply to the packing on the Stanley (piston style)
> oil pump! The owners manual (1920, Model 735) says that it
> has “special packing”.
>
> Any ideas as to what is so “special” and what are the modern
> alternatives, techniques to rebuild the piston pump once one
> has “fiddled” with a finicky one? (I have always left them
> alone in the past, but alas, I must admit to fiddling with
> this one with mixed results.)
>
> The manual also talks about cutting the oil viscosity. How
> does this relate modern steam cylinder oils? How much
> thinning and with what? I have use kerosene.
>
> I am also considering using synthetic gear oils as previously
> discussed on this site. Do these need to be cut for the
> piston type pump? Qty./ mile?
>
> Thanks in advance. I look forward to your replies.</HTML>
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