1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
Buying A Stanley
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: April 12, 2005 10:32AM
<HTML>Well, the time has come for me to get a Stanley. Kind of hard to believe. No, make that "mind-boggling". Too many years of dreaming about it and being unable to do it, have made the (hopefully) impending reality, however exciting, a real horse pill to swallow. Akin to the prospect of buying a genuine fully-operational flying saucer. Perhaps others here have had a similar experience when seeking their first steam car.
So, if anybody is considering selling a roadworthy condensing Stanley, or knows of one for sale (or soon to be for sale), please email me privately. Cosmetic defects are OK, but it should be a complete, good-running, and reasonably original/good condition car, preferably located in the US for ease of inspection & transport. I think that it would be sheer folly for a rank beginner like me to start out with a major restoration project. Those are best left to the experts.
I've been studying steam cars for years, but (by way of warning) will probably have about a million beginner questions in the near future, hopefully without being too much of a pest. I want to do this right; any tips on locating/evaluating/buying an antique steam car would be greatly appreciated -- and probably of interest to other readers here. I understand that finding the right antique steam car can be a lengthy and serendipitous process due to their rarity.
I have come to the conclusion that designing a steam car without practical experience of the real thing may take me forever to get good results. No offense intended to other steam developers without antique steam car experience (a category which still includes me); this is just my personal approach to expediting the learning process.
At the same time, I have always been fascinated by antique steamers, and appreciate their charm and historical value, and I plan to keep the antique "learning vehicle" in top original condition, without modifications or misuse of original components. Besides the fun/hobby aspect, I am approaching this as a serious investment in a rare, valuable, and historic antique, requiring conscientious care & handling, with the vehicle's future custodians in mind. IE, any steam car I take charge of will be going to a very good home.
Peter</HTML>
So, if anybody is considering selling a roadworthy condensing Stanley, or knows of one for sale (or soon to be for sale), please email me privately. Cosmetic defects are OK, but it should be a complete, good-running, and reasonably original/good condition car, preferably located in the US for ease of inspection & transport. I think that it would be sheer folly for a rank beginner like me to start out with a major restoration project. Those are best left to the experts.
I've been studying steam cars for years, but (by way of warning) will probably have about a million beginner questions in the near future, hopefully without being too much of a pest. I want to do this right; any tips on locating/evaluating/buying an antique steam car would be greatly appreciated -- and probably of interest to other readers here. I understand that finding the right antique steam car can be a lengthy and serendipitous process due to their rarity.
I have come to the conclusion that designing a steam car without practical experience of the real thing may take me forever to get good results. No offense intended to other steam developers without antique steam car experience (a category which still includes me); this is just my personal approach to expediting the learning process.
At the same time, I have always been fascinated by antique steamers, and appreciate their charm and historical value, and I plan to keep the antique "learning vehicle" in top original condition, without modifications or misuse of original components. Besides the fun/hobby aspect, I am approaching this as a serious investment in a rare, valuable, and historic antique, requiring conscientious care & handling, with the vehicle's future custodians in mind. IE, any steam car I take charge of will be going to a very good home.
Peter</HTML>
Re: Buying A Stanley
Posted by: Andy Patterson (IP Logged)
Date: April 12, 2005 07:49PM
<HTML>Good for you Peter. If I had the money I would be doing the same.
Andy</HTML>
Andy</HTML>
Re: Buying A Stanley
Posted by: Eric Gleason (IP Logged)
Date: April 13, 2005 01:07AM
<HTML>Hi Peter,
I was just over at the SACA forum and saw a posting for an auction of a 1925 SV sedan described as complete and unrestored original. The auction is in Clinton NJ on April 23rd if my memory is correct.
A couple of years ago I picked up a 1918 735 and have had a lot of fun with it, even if I have not been able to put many miles on it. There is a lot of learning to do! Good luck, Eric</HTML>
I was just over at the SACA forum and saw a posting for an auction of a 1925 SV sedan described as complete and unrestored original. The auction is in Clinton NJ on April 23rd if my memory is correct.
A couple of years ago I picked up a 1918 735 and have had a lot of fun with it, even if I have not been able to put many miles on it. There is a lot of learning to do! Good luck, Eric</HTML>
Re: Buying A Stanley
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: April 13, 2005 06:59AM
<HTML>Thanks, Eric. Alas, the auction vehicle is an SV. Collectible and historical value, but I've been warned about their durability. Rare, and for good reason. Many were retrofitted with 740 engines. Maybe I can find a 735? Neat cars, enjoy!
Andy: One of these days I'll drop by and loan the Stanley to the Patterson Institute for a few days of research. Get the donut boiler running, and we'll swap it in temporarily for variable-load road tests. Output will need to be throttled down and desuperheated.
Peter</HTML>
Andy: One of these days I'll drop by and loan the Stanley to the Patterson Institute for a few days of research. Get the donut boiler running, and we'll swap it in temporarily for variable-load road tests. Output will need to be throttled down and desuperheated.
Peter</HTML>
Re: Buying A Stanley
Posted by: Andy Patterson (IP Logged)
Date: April 13, 2005 07:41PM
<HTML>Hi Peter
I am progressing on the donut boiler. Got SS tubing and pressure sensors. Looking at single board computers for control. Also got some temp sensors. But would be better to go the way of the Oak Ridge group and have the tube as one element of the temp sensor. Now is I only had the time to work on it.
I havn't figured out my tube bender yet. Have enough continious tubeing to do the whole thing. But that is harder then doing each layer(coil seperatly.
Andy</HTML>
I am progressing on the donut boiler. Got SS tubing and pressure sensors. Looking at single board computers for control. Also got some temp sensors. But would be better to go the way of the Oak Ridge group and have the tube as one element of the temp sensor. Now is I only had the time to work on it.
I havn't figured out my tube bender yet. Have enough continious tubeing to do the whole thing. But that is harder then doing each layer(coil seperatly.
Andy</HTML>
Re: Buying A Stanley
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: April 13, 2005 10:23PM
<HTML>Way to go Andy! Buildbuildbuild. There are lots of options for tube bending, and your coil stack shouldn't be hard to sort out, especially with the 1/4" tubing. My approach is to minimize welds and fittings wherever possible.
I hear ya about time. That is the one thing I get cold feet about off and on: would an antique car divert too much shop time from my new steam car project? I have no illusions about any antique car being a "hop in and go" proposition. I've spent way too many hours fixing up old gas cars, and heard/read way too many antique steamer roadside/shop maintenance stories, to think that. I'm compiling a mental checklist of the things that need careful inspection, testing, adjustment, etc -- a worthy challenge!
I was halfway joking about the test boiler swap, but it occurs to me that if you can get the donut boiler running well, and as small/light as planned, it might fit on a running board, with a pipe running in to the steam system. Just a thought. Not joking about dropping by, though.
Peter</HTML>
I hear ya about time. That is the one thing I get cold feet about off and on: would an antique car divert too much shop time from my new steam car project? I have no illusions about any antique car being a "hop in and go" proposition. I've spent way too many hours fixing up old gas cars, and heard/read way too many antique steamer roadside/shop maintenance stories, to think that. I'm compiling a mental checklist of the things that need careful inspection, testing, adjustment, etc -- a worthy challenge!
I was halfway joking about the test boiler swap, but it occurs to me that if you can get the donut boiler running well, and as small/light as planned, it might fit on a running board, with a pipe running in to the steam system. Just a thought. Not joking about dropping by, though.
Peter</HTML>
Re: Buying A Stanley
Posted by: peter turvey (IP Logged)
Date: April 13, 2005 10:25PM
<HTML>I think you are very wise to avoid a restoration project and go for a complete, good-running, and reasonably original/good condition car.
Ours has turned out to be a very costly mistake - but I did want an original 4-seater coffin nosed Stanley which would meet Veteran Car Club of Great Britain event entry requirments.
I turned down many condensing cars over here in the UK that would have met your sensible requirements.</HTML>
Ours has turned out to be a very costly mistake - but I did want an original 4-seater coffin nosed Stanley which would meet Veteran Car Club of Great Britain event entry requirments.
I turned down many condensing cars over here in the UK that would have met your sensible requirements.</HTML>
Re: Buying A Stanley
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: April 13, 2005 11:46PM
<HTML>Thanks, Peter. I have thought about prospecting the UK for a Stanley (I've seen many fine restorations in The Steam Car), but there are transport and exchange rate issues. It makes much more sense to buy/ship the other direction at present! Container shipping can also be hazardous to the cars. I may be over there in late summer, however, and who knows what automotive derangement might overtake me.
I hope that you will not be offended to learn that your reports on the 607 helped convince me _not_ to try a restoration! How is that project going, by the way? On the bright side, when finished (if not there yet), it will be a superb car. Ready for many, many enjoyable miles too -- next best thing to picking up a brand new Stanley at the factory in 1914! Meanwhile, I may be stopping every few miles to gather Jazz Age fragments from the tarmac. :)
Peter</HTML>
I hope that you will not be offended to learn that your reports on the 607 helped convince me _not_ to try a restoration! How is that project going, by the way? On the bright side, when finished (if not there yet), it will be a superb car. Ready for many, many enjoyable miles too -- next best thing to picking up a brand new Stanley at the factory in 1914! Meanwhile, I may be stopping every few miles to gather Jazz Age fragments from the tarmac. :)
Peter</HTML>
Re: Buying A Stanley
Posted by: Simon Cast (IP Logged)
Date: April 18, 2005 04:29PM
<HTML>Hi Pete
Instead of faffing about (good old English expression that one!) with an old rust bucket that will take you absolutely YEARS why not build a brand new Modelworks Likamobile? All new components, CNC machined, all components fitting, no boiler inspections, all fully coded and ready to go. Sound attractive Pete? I await your response with great anticipation, I have even got one reserved and with your name on it!
Simon</HTML>
Instead of faffing about (good old English expression that one!) with an old rust bucket that will take you absolutely YEARS why not build a brand new Modelworks Likamobile? All new components, CNC machined, all components fitting, no boiler inspections, all fully coded and ready to go. Sound attractive Pete? I await your response with great anticipation, I have even got one reserved and with your name on it!
Simon</HTML>
Re: Buying A Stanley ... &/Or Lika?
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: April 19, 2005 02:30AM
<HTML>Hi Simon,
Definitely tempting! As you know, I have some serious curiosity about your new steamer, and assembling/driving one sure sounds "Lika" lotta fun ... Hmm ...
Peter</HTML>
Definitely tempting! As you know, I have some serious curiosity about your new steamer, and assembling/driving one sure sounds "Lika" lotta fun ... Hmm ...
Peter</HTML>
Re: Buying A Stanley ... &/Or Lika?
Posted by: Dick Vennerbeck (IP Logged)
Date: April 25, 2005 04:12AM
<HTML>Peter, Just buy a Ff'ing Stanley Car. "They ain't making em anymore! You'r friends here will help you to get it running. If you love steam cars this will work for you.
Dick Vennerebeck. If you want to save the world...........buy a HONDA CIVICC</HTML>
Dick Vennerebeck. If you want to save the world...........buy a HONDA CIVICC</HTML>
Re: Buying A Stanley ... &/Or Lika?
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: April 25, 2005 07:27AM
<HTML>Hi Dick,
Thanks! I wasn't thinking Lika "or" Stanley. Maybe one each? Gotta getta Stanley! Have 2 possible leads so far, "confidence is high". Way to go John Woodson, phorum gets _results_. Phantastic. Good abbr for "faffing" Dick, didn't know you were English. :) Heck with Hondas (Ff'ing gas cars, & water cooled to boot gack 2 strikes yer out). Much obliged for help (plenty already) from steam friends, expect I'll owe favors bigtime by the time I get steamin'. I will NOT scorch 1st boiler ... been warned ... know it happens ... not gonna happen ... wouldn't be prudent ... stay the course ... Mission Accomplished ... misunderestimated ... sentence fragment ... stupidity & hydrogen ... no politics ... no scorching ... absetively posilutely uh-uh ...
Peter</HTML>
Thanks! I wasn't thinking Lika "or" Stanley. Maybe one each? Gotta getta Stanley! Have 2 possible leads so far, "confidence is high". Way to go John Woodson, phorum gets _results_. Phantastic. Good abbr for "faffing" Dick, didn't know you were English. :) Heck with Hondas (Ff'ing gas cars, & water cooled to boot gack 2 strikes yer out). Much obliged for help (plenty already) from steam friends, expect I'll owe favors bigtime by the time I get steamin'. I will NOT scorch 1st boiler ... been warned ... know it happens ... not gonna happen ... wouldn't be prudent ... stay the course ... Mission Accomplished ... misunderestimated ... sentence fragment ... stupidity & hydrogen ... no politics ... no scorching ... absetively posilutely uh-uh ...
Peter</HTML>
Re: Buying A Stanley ... &/Or Lika?
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: July 22, 2005 09:36AM
<HTML>Due to a few emails I've gotten recently, a brief note: I'm still planning to buy a Stanley. First I have to sort/clear out an approximately 8x15x30 foot packed-to-rafters solid block of junk (salted with valuables) in my garage. Man what a(n underestimated) job, but slow progress is being made. Hopefully 1-2 months. I will not store a Stanley in rented space, or on street or parked in yard. The money factor is only the beginning of the trouble ... er, fun with antique cars. The tip of the iceberg. Arrange storage space first. Then get psychiatric evaluation. And so on...
Peter</HTML>
Peter</HTML>
Re: Buying A Stanley ... &/Or Lika?
Posted by: Andy Patterson (IP Logged)
Date: July 22, 2005 04:21PM
<HTML>Hi Peter
Thought you lived in California. The Sunshine state. Whats the problem with storage in your yard. You might wont a nice enclosed trailer to hall it around to all the great meets.
Andy</HTML>
Thought you lived in California. The Sunshine state. Whats the problem with storage in your yard. You might wont a nice enclosed trailer to hall it around to all the great meets.
Andy</HTML>
Re: Buying A Stanley ... &/Or Lika?
Posted by: Peter Brow (IP Logged)
Date: July 23, 2005 10:36AM
<HTML>Hi Andy,
That's exactly the problem -- sunshine. Ultraviolet and infrared radiation really do a job on automotive paint, fabric, rubber, wood, etc.. Including car covers/tarps, which all crumble to rags in under 2 years around here, no matter how long the makers claim it will last. I also have trees, so add leaves, twigs, pollen, flowers, fruit, sap, & "bird paint". Dry climate, so add dust, which turns to a film of mud with a little night time dew added. I'm also close enough to the Pacific Ocean for traces of airborne salt to be an issue.
No, I've stored cars outside before, and seen plenty of others stored outside, and they all go to pot in a few years. I don't even keep my old Bug outdoors any more. When I switched from outdoor to garage storage for the Bug, the decrease in vehicle decay rate (not to mention reduced washing & waxing) was astonishing.
Security is another issue. I've seen too many cars stolen or vandalized in streets and driveways, even in the best neighborhoods. Including tow-away thefts. But never from home garages. Most garages in older homes are used as junk storage sheds, so nobody bothers to break in. Plus they don't know what's in there. Out of sight, out of mind.
Even in sunny Southern California, every Stanley deserves a nice little house of its own.
Peter</HTML>
That's exactly the problem -- sunshine. Ultraviolet and infrared radiation really do a job on automotive paint, fabric, rubber, wood, etc.. Including car covers/tarps, which all crumble to rags in under 2 years around here, no matter how long the makers claim it will last. I also have trees, so add leaves, twigs, pollen, flowers, fruit, sap, & "bird paint". Dry climate, so add dust, which turns to a film of mud with a little night time dew added. I'm also close enough to the Pacific Ocean for traces of airborne salt to be an issue.
No, I've stored cars outside before, and seen plenty of others stored outside, and they all go to pot in a few years. I don't even keep my old Bug outdoors any more. When I switched from outdoor to garage storage for the Bug, the decrease in vehicle decay rate (not to mention reduced washing & waxing) was astonishing.
Security is another issue. I've seen too many cars stolen or vandalized in streets and driveways, even in the best neighborhoods. Including tow-away thefts. But never from home garages. Most garages in older homes are used as junk storage sheds, so nobody bothers to break in. Plus they don't know what's in there. Out of sight, out of mind.
Even in sunny Southern California, every Stanley deserves a nice little house of its own.
Peter</HTML>
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