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Keeping that boiler topped up - help
Posted by: Ian Vinton (IP Logged)
Date: August 12, 2005 08:31PM
<HTML> Just starting to test my Stanley 740 and I am having a little problem with the water level in the boiler.
The water level automatic is indicating 1" above the mid level when the boiler is filled with water in the cold state (seems right to me). It allows water to bypass with the blowdown operating until it is sizzling hot and then shuts off the water bypass to the tank (seems OK to me). Both the water automatic and the bypass valve allow water to be pumped into the boiler and the check valve goes cold proving its pumping into the boiler (Sounds fine to me).
Now take the car for a drive and the water level is not replenished but drops so that the water level indicator reads low.
The pipe between the check valve and water pump has become very hot, so it would seem that the check valve is leaking. But tested cold under air it is air tight.
So what is happening ?
The pipe between the check valve and bottom of the hand bypass valve gets very hot, so the check valve must leak when hot.
Can anyone point me in the direction of a new check valve ? or comment on my thought to insert an additional check valve at the bottom of the hand bypass valve so when water is pumping into the boiler ie: bypass shut or water automatic activated ie: shut the water has no option but to head for the boiler.
Any advice desperately sought.</HTML>
The water level automatic is indicating 1" above the mid level when the boiler is filled with water in the cold state (seems right to me). It allows water to bypass with the blowdown operating until it is sizzling hot and then shuts off the water bypass to the tank (seems OK to me). Both the water automatic and the bypass valve allow water to be pumped into the boiler and the check valve goes cold proving its pumping into the boiler (Sounds fine to me).
Now take the car for a drive and the water level is not replenished but drops so that the water level indicator reads low.
The pipe between the check valve and water pump has become very hot, so it would seem that the check valve is leaking. But tested cold under air it is air tight.
So what is happening ?
The pipe between the check valve and bottom of the hand bypass valve gets very hot, so the check valve must leak when hot.
Can anyone point me in the direction of a new check valve ? or comment on my thought to insert an additional check valve at the bottom of the hand bypass valve so when water is pumping into the boiler ie: bypass shut or water automatic activated ie: shut the water has no option but to head for the boiler.
Any advice desperately sought.</HTML>
Re: Keeping that boiler topped up - help
Posted by: Mike Clark (IP Logged)
Date: August 12, 2005 09:55PM
<HTML>Ian,
For check valves like everything else - try John Goold.
Mike</HTML>
For check valves like everything else - try John Goold.
Mike</HTML>
Re: Keeping that boiler topped up - help
Posted by: Ben in Maine (IP Logged)
Date: August 12, 2005 11:00PM
<HTML>When the water leavel in the boiler is below the automatic,,DOES the long tube of the automatic get hot? Steam should enter the tube and expand it and close the bypass valve on the end. If this does not close,,,,,now ,,,close the hand bypass under the dashboard,,,way down over on the right. This valve SHOULD be in series [in line] w/theautomatic,,,that is , if the auto doesn't close,the closed hand valve will stop the flow back to the tank. I dont think a check here is good. the check should be on the way to the BOILER...Don't forget IF you are TESTING,,,w/ both wheels jacked up,,,,when the pump comes on,,the RIGHT wheel will stop [because of the load of the pump on the RIGHT wheel,,,haha,,,...Best to jack up only rt wheel so pump does its duty,,,,Hope this helps Ben oops,,you will all too soon find the hand pump is useless at high pressure,,lower pressure and put on gloves,,,</HTML>
Re: Keeping that boiler topped up - help
Posted by: Ben in Maine (IP Logged)
Date: August 13, 2005 01:03AM
<HTML>Hi,,,Some time ago I think someone posted details for adjusting the water automatic,,,Can anyone recall or find that,,,or was it in a Stanley Museum Bulitan???? Cheers Ben</HTML>
Water Automatic Adjusment
Posted by: SSsssteamer (IP Logged)
Date: August 13, 2005 02:23PM
<HTML>With 300 lbs. Steam pressure on the boiler and the water level at the normal sight, jack up the right rear wheel, see that the hand by-pass valve is open, disconnect the copper tube leading from the side of the automatic by-pass valve back to the water tank so that you can see when the water comes through the valve. Run the engine slowly, and see that the expansion tube of the automatic by-pass is cool. If it is hot, it shows that the water level in the boiler is not high enough. When it is cool, the water thrown by the pump should pass through the valve freely.
Water Automatic Adjustment: Open the right front blow off valve which is connected into the bottom of the boiler in the same line at the front and that the automatic by-pass is. This should have the effect of heating the expansion tube and should close the valve. If it did not, slack up the rear adjusting nut at the front end of the automatic by-pass rods and take up on the front nuts until the valve closes. Be sure that you leave the blow-off valve open long enough so that the expansion tube is very hot. Now shut the blow-off valve and pour some cold water on the expansion tube until it is cool and see that the valve opens. If it does not open when it is cool, it shows that you have the adjusting nuts set up too far. Slack these up one square, that is one sixth of a revolution, and try it again, and see that the valve closes when it is hot and opens when it is cool.
The nuts at the back end of the rods, which make a tension on the coiled springs, should be set up so that the valve will close with full pressure on the boiler, and yet have space enough between the coils so that the springs can be compressed at least 1/16 of an inch without coming together.</HTML>
Water Automatic Adjustment: Open the right front blow off valve which is connected into the bottom of the boiler in the same line at the front and that the automatic by-pass is. This should have the effect of heating the expansion tube and should close the valve. If it did not, slack up the rear adjusting nut at the front end of the automatic by-pass rods and take up on the front nuts until the valve closes. Be sure that you leave the blow-off valve open long enough so that the expansion tube is very hot. Now shut the blow-off valve and pour some cold water on the expansion tube until it is cool and see that the valve opens. If it does not open when it is cool, it shows that you have the adjusting nuts set up too far. Slack these up one square, that is one sixth of a revolution, and try it again, and see that the valve closes when it is hot and opens when it is cool.
The nuts at the back end of the rods, which make a tension on the coiled springs, should be set up so that the valve will close with full pressure on the boiler, and yet have space enough between the coils so that the springs can be compressed at least 1/16 of an inch without coming together.</HTML>
Re: Keeping that boiler topped up - help
Posted by: Ian Vinton (IP Logged)
Date: August 16, 2005 08:05PM
<HTML>Thanks for the help.
I have checked out the automatic and it seems to function well, thanks SSsssteamer, good test.
I have now run the car on the road at 25 mph instead of the 10 mph around my field and the water level is behaving itself (good suggestion from Jeff Theobold).
Now I have trouble keeping the steam pressure up, 25 mph and its about 400 psi, 35 mph and its about 300 psi and struggling to keep this up.
I would have thought, for best efficiency, it would have been just below the steam automatic shutting off. Any suggestions ??</HTML>
I have checked out the automatic and it seems to function well, thanks SSsssteamer, good test.
I have now run the car on the road at 25 mph instead of the 10 mph around my field and the water level is behaving itself (good suggestion from Jeff Theobold).
Now I have trouble keeping the steam pressure up, 25 mph and its about 400 psi, 35 mph and its about 300 psi and struggling to keep this up.
I would have thought, for best efficiency, it would have been just below the steam automatic shutting off. Any suggestions ??</HTML>
Re: Keeping that boiler topped up - help
Posted by: Mike Clark (IP Logged)
Date: August 16, 2005 10:14PM
<HTML>Ian,
What size jets are you using? Mine likes number 61 drill size.
The steam automatic begins to close when the boiler pressure rises to within about 25psi of the shut off point. At small throttle openings and a light load my car will run at just under the 600psi cut off point with the burner modulating on a low flame and a pressure of say 50-60psi in the main burner vaporiser. With more throttle and load the boiler pressure drops to 550-575 at which point the steam auto is fully open and the vaporiser pressure is 120psi which equals the fuel line pressure. At this point the steam auto is fully open and the burner is at its hottest. I put a thermocouple below the superheater and find the temperature at that point is up to 1020 degrees C whereas when it is modulating the burner can still be going with only 500-700 degrees. So you get most heat from the burner when the boiler pressure is 25psi or more below the shut off pressure.
I have a permanent pressure gauge on the steam automatic (connects straight into the bottom of the unit) and would not do without it now as it lets me see exactly what the burner is doing. If you did this you would be able to tell if the automatic was not opening sufficiently as the vaporiser pressure would be way below the fuel line pressure. The amount of opening needed is surprisingly small.
Mike</HTML>
What size jets are you using? Mine likes number 61 drill size.
The steam automatic begins to close when the boiler pressure rises to within about 25psi of the shut off point. At small throttle openings and a light load my car will run at just under the 600psi cut off point with the burner modulating on a low flame and a pressure of say 50-60psi in the main burner vaporiser. With more throttle and load the boiler pressure drops to 550-575 at which point the steam auto is fully open and the vaporiser pressure is 120psi which equals the fuel line pressure. At this point the steam auto is fully open and the burner is at its hottest. I put a thermocouple below the superheater and find the temperature at that point is up to 1020 degrees C whereas when it is modulating the burner can still be going with only 500-700 degrees. So you get most heat from the burner when the boiler pressure is 25psi or more below the shut off pressure.
I have a permanent pressure gauge on the steam automatic (connects straight into the bottom of the unit) and would not do without it now as it lets me see exactly what the burner is doing. If you did this you would be able to tell if the automatic was not opening sufficiently as the vaporiser pressure would be way below the fuel line pressure. The amount of opening needed is surprisingly small.
Mike</HTML>
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