1 Steam Cars : Phorum
General Steam Car topics
burner fuel
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: June 26, 2002 03:42PM
<HTML>I have heard many sugestions for fuel to power a steam vehicle, ranging from alcohols to solar. The liquid pump fuels, such as gas or kero, we have on hand are easy to work with, exhibit a reasonable degree of safety, are commonly available at a somewhat reasonable price and have a high power density. Other factors such as storage and transport also favor the use of liquid hydrocarbons but their availability will become geratly reduced in the next decade as world reserves dwindle. As this happens, the convience of liquid pump fuels will suffer greatly when the retail price soars. This will force research and production into alternative renewable fuels like biodiesel, wood, grains and solar. An uncomon solid fuel gaining popularity for home heating is corn. Corn kernals contain more BTU's per pound than most wood, and they are in an easily handled form. At farm level, a bushel of corn is around $1.50 and probably everyone reading this can grow renewable corn if they wish. I have not played with the figures but it would seem there are more BTUs in the corn than in the ethanol produced from it. I suppose if your on the road and starving, corn and water would be better than gas and oil. I don't know, but there may be trouble if you pick up a batch of popcorn by accident.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: burner fuel
Posted by: George Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: June 26, 2002 04:54PM
<HTML>Peter,
Its uncanny that you bring up corn kernels as a fuel, a user of one of Mike Brown's engines is firing with corn and the BTU's/# is around 9,000, higher than good dried hardwood@ 7,000!!! He said it burns completely clean, virtually no ash---it must be nice to live in an area that has silos and warehouses full of the stuff. The amount of "corn oil" in the kernels is very high. However I did not ask how many pounds of corn kernels were in a bushel for price comparison, do you have any idea? Comparitively 2# of kernels would equal almost 1# of #2 fuel oil. I had wondered about the popcorn thing!!!This individual was interested in a Lamont solid fired boiler and shoveling in corn is not a bad way to go, designing and making the test boiler is another thing. People considering stationary steam plants in areas that there is an abundance of this "fuel" should give it consideration as a fuel source.
Best, George</HTML>
Its uncanny that you bring up corn kernels as a fuel, a user of one of Mike Brown's engines is firing with corn and the BTU's/# is around 9,000, higher than good dried hardwood@ 7,000!!! He said it burns completely clean, virtually no ash---it must be nice to live in an area that has silos and warehouses full of the stuff. The amount of "corn oil" in the kernels is very high. However I did not ask how many pounds of corn kernels were in a bushel for price comparison, do you have any idea? Comparitively 2# of kernels would equal almost 1# of #2 fuel oil. I had wondered about the popcorn thing!!!This individual was interested in a Lamont solid fired boiler and shoveling in corn is not a bad way to go, designing and making the test boiler is another thing. People considering stationary steam plants in areas that there is an abundance of this "fuel" should give it consideration as a fuel source.
Best, George</HTML>
corn/racoons/AAA/NRA/drag racin
Posted by: C Benson (IP Logged)
Date: June 26, 2002 07:14PM
<HTML>The animal writists are around the corner w/ detectors,,,,watchin for the first MOTORIST to take AIM at a racoon,,, [ Join AAA + NRA immediately ]] ONE racoon can wipe out a acre in one nite An of course it could not be practical around Boston 'burbs where the assments for a 2a lot is 1/2 mil'n an in some cases more than double that,,,, ,,Diesel is a good thot,,,,Here in Maine WAS a SAWDUST diesel,,,I think it ran on powder from the belt sander,,It was in a toothpic factory up around Sangervill as I recall,,,Air injection no doubt,,, Pull out in the passin lane let er rip,,,Toss in a couple of pine knotts for power AN w luck nock a hole in the radiator as ya get pass'd em Good sport of days of old,,,,Heat wave just hit Maine,,,WEEEElLbe ok again by tonite MMMaybee,,,Cheers Ben</HTML>
Re: burner fuel
Posted by: David K. Nergaard (IP Logged)
Date: June 26, 2002 07:49PM
<HTML>On the farm where my mother was born, the corn kernals were valuable as feed, but the cobs were used as fuel. As hard to ignite as anthracite, but a very good slow burning stove fuel. I guess it could serve in a locomotive boiler but would need too big a fire box for cars.
It is a matter of economics, do the farmers make more money selling food or fuel?</HTML>
It is a matter of economics, do the farmers make more money selling food or fuel?</HTML>
Re: burner fuel
Posted by: George Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: June 26, 2002 10:50PM
<HTML>Corn Kernel Fuel,
There are a few people out there that have made wonderful, blue flame, corn kernel burners and in those parts of the country where it is cheaper than dirt a very clean burning fuel. The cost per 1000 BTU's of corn kernels would be equivalent to a good cord of dry oak and half that of #2 fuel oil @ $1.20/gallon. So much more corn is stored than used in corn growing states that half of it rots, where do you think all that corn oil comes from?? The cobs are not worth burning and are not part of this fuel equation. This is being developed for stationary small power production and believe one such burner has passed all EPA tests with flying colors, except there is absolutely no color to the exhaust nor odor so omit the "colors". I know of a boiler and steam engine being as such in Texas and for stationary plants automatically auger-feed corn kernel boilers are being developed. Hopefully the industrialist developing this product will add to this discussion in the future. This is not a viable option in New Hampshire where the racoons seem to outnumber the ears of corn I plant---but they can certainly tell you when it has become sweet as the next morning after the day before every plant will be leveled to the ground! A bushel of corn(54#) is about 490,000BTU's and can cost from $1.50-$2.00, this is equivalent to about 3.5 gallons of #2 fuel oil. By the way it is kernels, not kernals, maybe that is a new and different variety of a different heat value!!!
Best, George</HTML>
There are a few people out there that have made wonderful, blue flame, corn kernel burners and in those parts of the country where it is cheaper than dirt a very clean burning fuel. The cost per 1000 BTU's of corn kernels would be equivalent to a good cord of dry oak and half that of #2 fuel oil @ $1.20/gallon. So much more corn is stored than used in corn growing states that half of it rots, where do you think all that corn oil comes from?? The cobs are not worth burning and are not part of this fuel equation. This is being developed for stationary small power production and believe one such burner has passed all EPA tests with flying colors, except there is absolutely no color to the exhaust nor odor so omit the "colors". I know of a boiler and steam engine being as such in Texas and for stationary plants automatically auger-feed corn kernel boilers are being developed. Hopefully the industrialist developing this product will add to this discussion in the future. This is not a viable option in New Hampshire where the racoons seem to outnumber the ears of corn I plant---but they can certainly tell you when it has become sweet as the next morning after the day before every plant will be leveled to the ground! A bushel of corn(54#) is about 490,000BTU's and can cost from $1.50-$2.00, this is equivalent to about 3.5 gallons of #2 fuel oil. By the way it is kernels, not kernals, maybe that is a new and different variety of a different heat value!!!
Best, George</HTML>
Re: burner fuel
Posted by: HOWARD RANDALL (IP Logged)
Date: June 27, 2002 11:25AM
<HTML>As my school teacher father was fond of saying, "Now we are thinking, boys and girls." Great discussion.
While we are at it, what about all the corn that passes through pigs and cattle and available as methane at the other end? George, I have misplaced my copy of "Mother Earth News", can you help me with these numbers? What is the residual value in BTU's of a bushel of corn passed through a pig or cow?
On a recent steam car tour I pulled the Mountain Wagon into a hog farm in Iowa for a water stop. This farm used a large "digester" to turn the pig manure into methane that was used to dry corn and heat the buildings. Talk about your closed cycle thermodynamics!
And what about the corn stocks? More useful put back into the soil, or solar dried and burned?</HTML>
While we are at it, what about all the corn that passes through pigs and cattle and available as methane at the other end? George, I have misplaced my copy of "Mother Earth News", can you help me with these numbers? What is the residual value in BTU's of a bushel of corn passed through a pig or cow?
On a recent steam car tour I pulled the Mountain Wagon into a hog farm in Iowa for a water stop. This farm used a large "digester" to turn the pig manure into methane that was used to dry corn and heat the buildings. Talk about your closed cycle thermodynamics!
And what about the corn stocks? More useful put back into the soil, or solar dried and burned?</HTML>
Re: burner fuel
Posted by: George Nutz (IP Logged)
Date: June 27, 2002 03:53PM
<HTML>Howard,
Sorry but I have not done an anal-ysis(have always wondered about this word) of the gas passage of cows and pigs and cannot answere your question, nor of the residual gas-pass energy of the spent animal fuel. From what my failing mind has gleaned the greatest producer of methane is not from cows, pigs, beer drinking frat party's but from termites---oh God help the environmental changes these termites produce. I read somewhere that there are 10 to 100 times the body weight of termites on this planet than of us billions of human beings, how can we harness this termite gas passage??
Inquiring mind wants to know.
Best, George</HTML>
Sorry but I have not done an anal-ysis(have always wondered about this word) of the gas passage of cows and pigs and cannot answere your question, nor of the residual gas-pass energy of the spent animal fuel. From what my failing mind has gleaned the greatest producer of methane is not from cows, pigs, beer drinking frat party's but from termites---oh God help the environmental changes these termites produce. I read somewhere that there are 10 to 100 times the body weight of termites on this planet than of us billions of human beings, how can we harness this termite gas passage??
Inquiring mind wants to know.
Best, George</HTML>
Re: burner fuel
Posted by: tom ward (IP Logged)
Date: June 28, 2002 11:08AM
<HTML>Why not run the whole plant through a shredder; grain, cobs, stalks, and leaves. (throw in those pesky weeds too) Once it is dried it will burn the same.</HTML>
Re: burner fuel
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: June 29, 2002 11:50AM
<HTML>What drew my attention to the corn kernel burners is, they report efficiencies of greater than 90% with no smoke and great control as well as the fact that the depressed corn prices have forced many farmers to find cost efficient alternatives for the use of corn. Many corn stoves can burn biomass, seeds and other grains, even what is left over after the racoons get theirs. Put corn stoves in your search engine and many responses such as: cornburner.com will pop up. They seem to be of reasonably small size for their output also.
Peter Heid</HTML>
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: burner fuel
Posted by: HOWARD RANDALL (IP Logged)
Date: July 02, 2002 11:18AM
<HTML>Thanks Peter and others, very interesting topic.
George. I found my Mother Earth News Article on the web, and I wasn't ........you. Check out this website for more on the subject:
www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/batesmethane.htm
to see an atricle on the Bates chicken powered car!
Harping back to the 60's, as Bob Dylan reminded us, "The answer(s) my friends, is(are) blowin in the wind"!</HTML>
George. I found my Mother Earth News Article on the web, and I wasn't ........you. Check out this website for more on the subject:
www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/batesmethane.htm
to see an atricle on the Bates chicken powered car!
Harping back to the 60's, as Bob Dylan reminded us, "The answer(s) my friends, is(are) blowin in the wind"!</HTML>
Re: burner fuel
Posted by: Peter Heid (IP Logged)
Date: July 10, 2002 01:13PM
<HTML>Another thought in this direction would be peanuts. They have a very high oil content and a reasonably short growing season. I live about 100 miles south of Canada in the Adirondack mountains of up-state New York and the growing season is suitable for early spanish peanuts, the kind you see in the stores. They will survive where it is too hot and dry for the production of corn and tolerate most soil conditions. They are fun to watch grow too, after flower production has ceased, the flower stems burrow into the ground where they will produce the legume we all know as the peanut. I can visualize a need to protect your fuel from rodents, damn squirrels keep getting into my fuel resevoir and eating the fuel. When I parked it last night, it was 3/4 full, this morning it is empty !
Peter Heid</HTML>
Peter Heid</HTML>
Re: burner fuel
Posted by: Rick Badger (IP Logged)
Date: October 17, 2004 03:08AM
<HTML>This is an amazing topic.I am by no means some "tree-hugger" out trying to save the planet,but I have three children and the older I get the more I realize that we need to start being more responsible about things like this.As far as peanuts for fuel I saw a show on Discovery channel I think it was and they were talking about Bio-diesel engines.Now from what they were saying these engines got just as good or better horsepower and torque numbers and significantly improved fuel mileage.Why in God's name are we not using these RENEWABLE resources and not only improving our environment but also breaking the strangle hold that the Middle East oil producers have this country in?I am planning on re-financing my house in 2 years and you can all bet that part of my home improvement plan will be the addition of a corn burner furnace and water heater.</HTML>
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